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Old 08-09-2008, 03:57 AM   #1
CMP
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3400RL insulation

We have an 05 we bought new and it has the artic package with 2 ac's. The problem is it doesn't cool all that well( but we manage) and the furnace runs almost continually in the winter season. We live in southeast Texas so it is not all that cold. When the furnace is turned down at night to around 57 and it is 40 outside the unit doesn't hold the temp very long before it recycles again. The trailer just doesn't hold any temperature very long. Does anyone else have this problem?
 
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Old 08-09-2008, 04:29 AM   #2
SlickWillie
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by CMP

We have an 05 we bought new and it has the artic package with 2 ac's. The problem is it doesn't cool all that well( but we manage) and the furnace runs almost continually in the winter season. We live in southeast Texas so it is not all that cold. When the furnace is turned down at night to around 57 and it is 40 outside the unit doesn't hold the temp very long before it recycles again. The trailer just doesn't hold any temperature very long. Does anyone else have this problem?
Yep, I would think it is very common. You have double pane windows?

We can get ours very cool, but the electric bill tells the tale when we do. Costs as much to cool this thing as it did to cool the stick house (2100 sq ft).
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Old 08-09-2008, 04:33 AM   #3
Waynem
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I have an 08 3400RL (Mfg'd 5/07) and the heat works as you described. Only when it has been 98 degrees and we set up around 2:30-3:00 p.m. did I have problem cooling down, but after sundown, and from there on, it would keep cool.

With the heater, it just keeps cycling and cycling. Finally bought a supplemental electric heater and it alleviated that problem. My next step would have been to redirect the heat from the duct to the bedroom. I'd roast in there and freeze in the LR.

Good luck.

Edited: They can say all they want about "Artic package," but when it is hot outside, you can put your hand on the wall and just feel the radiation of heat transferring into the unit. I have no idea of what type of insulation they use, but it's not good. They really need to invest in installing a good radiant barrier. There is a paint that can reduce radiant heat better than what is in the Montana.

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Old 08-09-2008, 06:48 AM   #4
JimF
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We have an 07 3400 with dual pane windows and gelcoat, in the summer (90+ with both ac's running) I can hang meat in it, gets to cold for the wife but fine with me. For winter we use supplemental heat in the living room and a small heater in the bedroom, set the t'stat at 65 and the furnace seldom runs. Before the supplemental heat it was like you said, we would go thru a bottle of propane in 4 to 5 days. This past winter with the supplemental the propane would last 4 to 5 weeks. BIG difference.
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:53 PM   #5
sreigle
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Ours is an '07 with one AC and single pane windows. Our AC works well up to about 90 degrees. From there up it begins to struggle. It does "ok" until triple digits. And I don't often plan to be in those, anyhow.

Your furnace sounds like something is not right. We've been down to 5 below zero (F) with ours. It ran a lot at those temperatures but kept us comfortable. I had put film on the windows to simulate the dual panes. We also used a couple of electric heaters to help with the propane usage.

We've multiple times been in the twenties without the film on the windows and the furnace did fine. We'd get a cool draft off the windows but kept the shades down to help with that. Temperatures in the 40's like you described should be no problem whatsoever for that furnace.
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Old 08-09-2008, 02:04 PM   #6
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Ok, we are the most far northern Montana fulltimers in the MOC that I am aware of. I'm going to be honest and I DO NOT mean to offend anyone. So here goes. Again, no reference made below is meant to offend you.

We live fulltime in our rig. Summers in Alaska are no problem. Winters are brutal. For reference, we have a 3650RK. Yes, we have the arctic package. We have also added additional insulation (and lots of it) and use a 110V baseboard heater in the LR large slide all winter.

Knowing that we have subfreezing weather for months on end, I will be the very first to stand up and say the arctic package makes a difference. It probably doesn't make much difference when your winter temps are not so far reaching (say just at or above freezing), but I will tell you (and y'all can argue with me if it makes you feel better) that ANY insulation added when you are sitting at -50 does make a difference.

Yes, our furnace runs a lot and yes we have a 150 gallon LP tank that we use and run thru in a month or less (if it's really cold). We also use the baseboard heat and, when needed we will supplement with an electric heater or two. However, we don't sit here and shiver and we dress appropriately for the weather conditions. There have been many times, we have had to drop the furnace temp and crack open a window because it got so warm inside in the middle of January.

All that said, it is a trailer and these things are not as tight as our stick homes. (Well, in our case, the Montana is tighter than our house in Bethel, but we won't go there. There are just some things in the Alaskan bush that aren't meant to be.)

Again, this is personal experience only and not meant to start an argument about arctic packages.
Tammy
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Old 08-09-2008, 03:58 PM   #7
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We have 2 ac's and the artic package with single pane windows. In 90+ weather, lower coach gets warm (78+) and the a/c's will never cycle off in the daytime. Upper room a/c keeps the bedroom/bathroom area cooler than the lower section. As was said, you can feel the heat on the slide compartments and at the windows. I was considering slide out toppers but don't think will cure the heat issue. In cold weather, furnace runs alot unless we compliment it with either the fireplace or another electric heater. We will be moving from Cheyenne Wyoming in November to San Antonio area for a job there. It gets really warm down that way, so we are going to have to do something to help the a/c units. May have to build a temporary cover over the RV as we will be there for 18 months.
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Old 08-10-2008, 02:51 AM   #8
Glenn and Lorraine
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Don't get into really cold temps. When it starts getting cold we just head further south. Finally end up in west central Florida for the winter. We may get down to 40°s but it doesn't last long.
This AM we are in Michigan, just above Ann Arbor. The temp this morning was around 50°. I did turn the furnace on and yes it did warm things up to 65° but recycled a few times trying to keep it there. I do have 2 ceramic heaters to supplement the furnace and will use them if need be.
During the hot 90°+ days the back A/C will have a tough time getting it below 80. If need be we will turn on the bedroom A/C but this is very infrequent. If it's in the 80s the back A/C has no problems keeping it down to 72°

Tammy said it very well "All that said, it is a trailer and these things are not as tight as our stick homes." Even with these expensive rigs we all own we have to remember they are RVs and there is just so much insulating that can be done. Keep in mind, If this is the lifestyle we want to experience than WE MUST give up the comforts we had in our stick houses.

Again Quoting Tammy, "I'm going to be honest and I DO NOT mean to offend anyone. So here goes. Again, no reference made below is meant to offend you."
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Old 08-10-2008, 03:12 AM   #9
exav8tr
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On a really warm day we turn the bedroom AC on high/cool and place a fan on the steps to blow cold air out of br into LR as we leave the rear AC on high also. This will make it tolerable (of course, that word is relative). When it's cold we usually have a 1500 watt ceramic heater going along with the furnace. Of course, we are avoiding the extreme weather by being north in summer (Wisconsin now) and south in winter (AZ or CA). We do have window awnings also and slide toppers. I think the window awnings help somewhat. Single pane windows and no tinting either. All in all we have been very comfortable.
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Old 08-10-2008, 04:07 AM   #10
Exnavydiver
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Our 08 Big Sky was ordered with double pane windows. A great investment, and well worth the price both for noise and temp. We spent last winter in south east Georgia, Savannah and Statesboro area. We had several "freezy" days and nights but no problem keeping warm. The furnace does cycle often but we get around that with one ceramic heater in the LR area. As the heat tends to migrate to the bedroom so we don't leave it on too high. It is not unusual for us to get up in the morning and have it in the low 50s or high 40s in the rig. We use an electric blanket and dress accordingly and about ten minutes of furnace gets the rig into the 60s. The only thing we do when we know it will freeze is shut off the hose and disconnect it. We did have it stay in the 20 for the first five days on our trip south but not a problem. Having the extra electrical heaters helps a lot. Other than that the rigs are nothing but metal boxes with an inch of styro between the walls so there will be temp extremes. As far as handling the heat, if we know that the day is going to be a scorcher, we start the AC early before it gets into the high 80s. We get the inside down as low as we can and it usually will do a slow climb till late afternoon when it just hits 80 inside the temp out side drops below that and/or the sun goes down things balance out... Dave
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:10 AM   #11
sreigle
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Just as a point of reference, my understanding of what comprises the Arctic Package is that it is simply the sheet of insulation in the belly. It does not refer to wall or floor or ceiling insulation. Those are the same for every Montana coming out of the factory. Nor does it include the dual pane windows. Those are an extra cost item. The Arctic Package is a "standard option" on every Montana. Not even an option. You get it and pay for it no matter what. The Arctic Package's purpose is to help protect the water lines in the belly from freezing.

This is what I was told at least twice during discussions with a Keystone exec and again during one of the factory tours.

That said, we used to do winters in the Kansas City area, into January. We survived temperatures down to 5 below zero, fahrenheit. And multiple stretches (over four winters) of up to two weeks where the high temperature never reached above 14 degrees. We ran electric heaters to supplement the propane furnace. We put plastic film over our windows since we didn't have the dual panes. We wore clothing like we would in the same weather in a stick home: a sweatshirt or maybe sometimes a sweater. We did feel some cool off the windows although the film helped tremendously (dual panes would be better yet). We felt some cool air radiate off the slide walls but nothing intolerable. We stayed comfortable although I don't recall ever turning the furnace down because it got too warm. We did not skirt the rig although I thought about it.

We had trouble with freezing water pipes in our 2003 Montana when it got that cold. Insulating the pipes helped tremendously. And insulating the low point drains which hung outside the rig on those older Montanas. Actually, insulation didn't keep those from freezing. I had to heat tape them.

The newer Montanas with the connection center in the basement storage area are much better suited to cold weather, at least as far as the water pipes are concerned. The low point drain valves are inside where it doesn't freeze. The water lines in the belly are in their own channel up between the floor and subfloor where they absorb heat from the coach interior. And those are tested to zer o degrees F. Ours has been to those temperatures and not frozen any water pipes and I've done absolutely nothing to assist those pipes inside the rig. I did heat tape the park's spigot and my outside water line and that's it.

I don't know if anyone else's experience mirrors our, but for what it's worth, this is how it worked for us.
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