Montana Service couldn't get any worse! - Montana Owners Club

BirdingRVer · 11-19-2010, 07:29 AM

Tuesday, I took our 2010 Montana 3400RL to Skyriver RVs in Paso Robles, California to have a leak in our shower gray tank fixed. After dropping the belly panels, filling the tank and then photographing the leak they said they would order a new tank and I made an appointment to return next month to have it replaced.

Yesterday, when I was 150 miles down the road they said that Montana can’t send a new tank unless they have the measurements of the existing tank. They have no way of knowing either by VIN number or build date which gray tank is in our 3400. The dealer says that this has never happen before. So, they want me to drive back down to them let them get the measurements, then return back to here (a 300 mile round trip) and then return to them for the installation next month.

The only Keystone dealer that I have found in the bay area said that they won’t do ANY warranty work on a unit that wasn’t purchase there. I gave them my sad story about being from Texas and just visiting for the holidays. They did say that they could do the work at $125 per hour and then I could try to get reimbursed from Keystone. They also confirmed that they need to measure the current tank to order the new tank.

drsmart · 11-19-2010, 07:52 AM

Grant. Sorry to hear about the pain and fuel they're putting you through. Don't know who's tanks Keystone was using in your 2010, but I photographed everything in sight after removing the panel in our cargo bay. The one label visible on one of the two holding tanks had the manufacturer name and model. I was able to go to their web site and look up the exact tank. They had images with all dimensions and volume. In our case it was Ameri-Kart Corp. Tank was model HT541. Made me wonder since the Montana web site indicated 93 gallons grey and 50 gallons waste. The HT541 is 40 gallon. I know there are two grey tanks but not sure if we have the size advertised.
Hope they get you taken care of soon.

Tom S. · 11-19-2010, 08:20 AM

As long as the dealer has the year and model of your trailer, I don't know why Keystone couldn't tell him the tank size. Maybe he needs to call back and talk to someone else. As for the other dealer who said he won't do warranty work on units he didn't sell, I'd be calling Keystone about that!

blarkman · 11-19-2010, 08:48 AM

I believe tank sizes have come up before on this site and the dealer should have known that. Why are we dumping on the factory and Yes you do not have to work on products you don't sell!! You just mite not be on their preferred dealer list
bob

dpam · 11-19-2010, 08:51 AM

Keystone is very aware there are Keystone/Montana dealers that refuse to provide warranty work if you didn't purchase your trailer from them. Out of 4 Keystone Dealers in Calgary, Alberta only 1 agreed to provide warranty work on the monty. I spoke to Keystone Customer Service about this issue, and they confirmed they were aware of this warranty support issue. On a trip through N. Dakota I wanted a Montana Dealer to check to see if our propane was working correctly. Their first question was "did you purchase the trailer here".

Keystone will reimburse you for warranty work if you have to pay out of your own pocket. But, I would call Customer Service first to ensure they authorize the expenditure and that they will reimburse.

Shortly after our 3150RL purchase our rear day/night shades fell down. I went to a Keystone dealer for help, and the only way they would fix the problem is if I agreed to pay for it. Keystone Customer Service reimbursed the money.

richfaa · 11-19-2010, 09:26 AM

You do need to know the model number, tanks size and if it is a left or right drain in order to get the propewr tanks. Your dealer should have known that. Year and model number is not enough as they may change during the year. All that information is marked on the tank.Your dealer should have known that. When they dropped the tank the tank information should hve been clearly visable marked on the tank. The dealer caused your hardships.

ols1932 · 11-19-2010, 09:28 AM

Grant, I know what you mean about Keystone not knowing what is in each unit they build. I had the same problem with my gray tank this summer. When the dealer ordered it, it came in and didn't fit; the outlet was in the wrong place. So, they measured it and reordered, I think from a place that makes the tanks. It came in and fit perfectly. My dealer never hesitated to fix my unit and I'm not under warranty, only Good Sam's CSP.

I hear these horror stories all the time about Keystone dealers not doing warranty work on units they didn't sell. My dealer runs into the same problem. People drive 200 miles away to save $500 on a unit and then bring it home to my dealer to fix under warranty. He always says, with a smile, "Sure, bring it in but I'm booked solid for the next 3 to 4 weeks." Can you blame him? He always has room for his steady customers as shown when I pull in needing immediate work.

Orv

rames14 · 11-19-2010, 09:59 AM

When we moved to Wisconsin almost 4 years ago, I needed some service work done. I ran into the same issue with the local dealer. When I bought my new Big Sky last year, I got three quotes - dealer in Indiana, last dealer and the closer dealer. I paid higher to buy near my new house. It made sense after I sat down with the local dealer. He averages across all models and brands $1500 in un-reimbursed charges for work he does on the units he sells. So, when he does your warranty work, he doesn't know for sure he will get paid. So, now you go and buy 1,000 miles away to save money and the dealer knows you're not driving 1,000 miles to get the dinky items fixed. So, they can sell for less because they don't need to account for that $1500 in unreimbursed costs. And it isn't just Keystone. Are other people buying for less- yes. Do I get immediate service - yes. This is a big dealership, but they always greet me by name. Good luck on the tank. Most dealers, mine included, will do emergency work regardless of where you are from. Maybe your dealer is a member of Route 66 or other affiliated group that service each other's customers.

CamillaMichael · 11-19-2010, 12:03 PM

I would think that Keystone would have some record of what components (and their specifics) they put into the Montanas (and other units), but from personal experience, when I tried to get info on what power converter is in our Montana, Keystone customer service claimed to not know! Apparently, our best option for warranty work is to pray we do not need any.

Waynem · 11-19-2010, 03:27 PM

Wow! Those dealers that will not honor warranty work must have a booming business going in these economic times. Who would have thought. There must be other dealers, or service centers, around there that would honor the warranty. I don't think it has to be a Keystone/Montana dealer. They just need an account with Keystone.

SlickWillie · 11-20-2010, 12:43 AM

The trail leads back to Keystone. If they took care of their dealers by paying for warranty work as they should, we wouldn't be talking about this. However, I cannot blame a dealer for not doing work they may not be compensated for.

We had a slide roof leak in the first three months we had our unit. We were down near South Padre, so I sealed it temporarily, and when we got to Rockport, I checked on getting it fixed. They were to take pictures, send to Keystone, and see if they would pay. The guy explained to me that Keystone calls a lot of warranty work "lot maintenance" and the dealer gets no pay for doing it.

The RV industry has a lot to be desired.

BirdingRVer · 11-20-2010, 04:13 AM

“As long as the dealer has the year and model of your trailer, I don't know why Keystone couldn't tell him the tank size.”

The second dealer thought they could order the tank with just the VIN number as well. I was standing there when they called Keystone and the first thing Keystone asked is "do you have the measurements?" If two different dealers didn’t know about this it seems to me that Keystone isn’t communicating very well with their dealers.

“Why are we dumping on the factory and Yes you do not have to work on products you don't sell!!”

Have you ever had or know of anyone to have similar problem with a car or truck? If you need warranty work on your truck while traveling they don’t say “you, didn’t buy it here or come back in three weeks.”

“Those dealers that will not honor warranty work must have a booming business going in these economic times.”

I noticed that only one of their bay doors was open and there didn’t see much activity going on. I did say to the person I talked to “Wow, is business that good?” all she would say is company policy.

“Apparently, our best option for warranty work is to pray we do not need any.” Amen to that!

I think that the RV industry just doesn’t understand or care that people live in and travel extensively with their RVs. They are working on a model that says people have permanent homes and only use their RVs 30 days a year. You return from a 2 week vacation, return to your hometown dealer, drop of the RV for service and then pick it up a month later. Can you imagine if the car industry worked that way!

blarkman · 11-20-2010, 05:56 AM

RV's are not mass produced like the auto industry, they are literly hand built, just look under the sink or cabnets and see how they are put together, no two are the same. Almost all the auto dealers I worked just wanted to do warrenty work on what tthey sold. Travellers were treated different and the BOSS did not holler as much when we worked on them. I think as RV'ers we have to realize that just because we bought an RV we don't go to the front of the line for repairs!! and the repair facility has to work them in when and if they can
bob

richfaa · 11-20-2010, 06:00 AM

We keep comparing the RV industry with the auto industry and there is no comparison. In the RV industry is it basically every man for himself. In our own case in the nearly 5 years of ownership of this 3400 and not without problems, we have never had any problem with repairs be it purchasing dealer, dealers in other parts of the country or the service center warranty or otherwise.. No dealer has ever trurned us down for repair or service. Just lucky I guess????

sfish · 11-20-2010, 06:19 AM

I think that the warranty labor rates are not as high as the customer pay rates and that is where a big problem occurs.If the dealer posts a labor rate and Keystone would honor that rate I would think that the dealer would welcome all the work they could get.Thats how it works in the auto business.Labor rates vary all over the country depending on rent factors etc.Dealers as a group need to explain that to Keystone and hold them to it. Steve

drsmart · 11-20-2010, 06:53 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by sfish

I think that the warranty labor rates are not as high as the customer pay rates and that is where a big problem occurs.If the dealer posts a labor rate and Keystone would honor that rate I would think that the dealer would welcome all the work they could get.Thats how it works in the auto business.Labor rates vary all over the country depending on rent factors etc.Dealers as a group need to explain that to Keystone and hold them to it. Steve

As rames14 mentioned, the dealer that sold you the trailer has dollars built in to the price you paid to help compensate them if repairs are needed during that first year of factory warranty.
I wonder if that's why there's usually a deductible we pay under the extended warranty plans. Ours was $100 for each repair. Is it possible this goes to the dealer to help compensate them for the lower labor rate paid by the warranty company? The deductible is also to discourage you from making small claims for every little thing that goes wrong, warrany company hoping you'll fix it yourself.

carlson · 11-20-2010, 07:13 AM

Back to the tank replacement.
When we needed, at two different times to replace tanks. The first time was a horror show, second went better.
On the tank, there is a sticker that has the tank dimensions on it, that is one part of the formula of info.
Second, on the side of the tank is a hand written number, mine in yellow marker, that was a key number they wanted (Keystone).
The third and most important, where is the outlet.
You would think, because you can only look at the tank from the bottom, that when you look up and you look at the tank the outlet is to the rear of the unit, so looking you would say that the outlet is on the RIGHT.
WRONG, WRONG, they put the tanks in from the top before the floor is installed, so the outlet is on the LEFT, yes LEFT.
Been there, done that and they wanted me to pay for shipment for the wrong tank, sorry it was not my error.
You would think, I mean how simple could it be to know what tanks goes into what unit, it is not like they change the tank locations, or size, every year.
From what year, to what year has a 3400RL had the same layout. Once, before the drop frame and after the drop frame.
E. Sven

richfaa · 11-20-2010, 07:32 AM

Mine was marked as to the size and the tank inlets L or R. We had no problem after dropping the under belly reading the sticker and markings to order the proper tank. Keystone told us where to look for the markings and travel Star the tank manufacturer verified the information.

SlickWillie · 11-20-2010, 08:07 AM

So, it ain't rocket science, since they have a build ticket on each RV. How hard would be? Galley tank #suchandsuch, Grey tank and so on. When you think about how easy it would be, it is ridiculous to have to open the belly to order a tank. Keystone, are you listening?

richfaa · 11-20-2010, 08:27 AM

Interesting thought Will. I have seen those build tickets on Rv's on the line looking for a RV someone on the Forum had ordered but never noticed anything about the tanks. Will take a closer look next time we are there or perhaps someone else knows. We do note a stack of tanks piled in the first couple of build sites and I wonder how they know which tank goes were as several different models are on the line at the same time. The logical answer is....it is on the build ticket?????

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