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Old 11-11-2008, 02:34 AM   #21
Waynem
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My logic is eluding me. I would turn the appliances off. This would ensure that the igniter would not fire because there would be no connectivity. Turning off the propane at that tank still leaves a residue in the lines that are subject to the demand call of the appliance and would still try to fire, even for a short run of the residual fuel

This is an interesting subject. I'm not really sure of what the "correct" answer is and would love to discuss this with the experts that give the safety classes.

Thanks.
 
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:39 AM   #22
exav8tr
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This is an article by Mac McCoy

Mac McCoy is a thirty-year fire-fighting veteran who has worked as a paramedic, deputy sheriff, the Fire Service Training Coordinator for the State of Oregon and now travels nationwide teaching RVers the skills needed for fire-safe travel. Mac has a bachelor's degree in Fire Science and a master's degree in Fire Administration. To learn more about Fire & Life Safety, find out where you can attend a Fire & Life Safety seminar taught by Mac, or to contact Mac, visit www.macthefireguy.com



Traveling with Propane
By Mac McCoy

"Traveling with propane poses a dilemma for RVers: Should it be turned on or off while driving down the road? There are pros and cons to each; therefore, each RVer must weigh the facts and decide which option best suits their comfort level.

Traveling With Propane On

There are several conveniences to traveling with the propane on. First, it allows the refrigerator to run, which guarantees the food inside remains cool and fresh. In cold weather, propane allows you to run your RV's heating system in your RV and keep water in the hot water heater hot. Some RVs require the propane be on to run the generator.

Clearly there are benefits to traveling with the propane on; however, there are definite risks. Propane lines can break if an accident occurs while you're on the road or if an appliance moves while traveling. With no restriction in the line, the propane in the tank can escape. Since propane can ignite with only a small amount in the air (eight parts per million of propane), any triggering device in the vicinity will light it. A broken propane line is extremely dangerous and can trigger an explosion and fire.

If you elect to travel with the refrigerator operating on propane, you must turn it-and all appliances-off prior to entering a fuel stop. Most propane tanks can only be filled to 80 percent capacity to allow expansion of the gas in the tank, and prevent the pressure relief valve from allowing gas to escape. When the main gas valve on the tank is turned on, it is critical that you fully open it until it locks to enable the excess flow valve to operate.

A past issue of Escapees magazine recounts a situation where a member had driven into a fuel stop and found the station had burned to the ground. An RVer had pulled into the facility and attempted to refuel while the RV's water heater was on. The resulting explosion burned the vehicle completely, destroyed the station, and killed a Good Samaritan who tried to help. Propane is the direct cause of fires less than 1% of the time. In other words, it's very rare. However, driving with the propane on is a gamble. If you're involved in an accident or experience a tire blowout while the propane is on, your injury and the damage to your vehicle can be significantly worse.

Traveling With Propane Off

If you choose to travel with your propane off, you forfeit the additional warmth of your vehicle's heating system, the guarantee food in your refrigerator will remain cold and water in your water heater will remain hot. However, it's a trade-off that may someday save your life. By traveling with the propane off, you minimize the risk of an accident becoming much worse due to propane leakage.

Many states even require that the propane be turned off before entering tunnels. If keeping your food fresh is the main reason you've chosen to drive with your propane on in the past, reevaluate this decision based on weather conditions and your refrigerator type and age. With new technology, it's no longer necessary to travel with propane on to keep food in the refrigerator from spoiling. With minimal opening, most refrigerators manufactured after 1995 keep an internal temperature of less than 40 degrees for eight hours, on a 100-degree day.

To ensure your food stays cool, purchase a fridge fan. These small, battery-operated fans, can be found at the Fire & Life Safety booth at RV rallies, Camping World, and some Wal*Marts for between $15 and $20. A fridge fan circulates cold air much like a convection oven circulates warm air. Place the fan on the lower shelf for best results. Positioning a stainless steel bowl filled with ice next to the fan keeps your refrigerator even colder, longer.

If you open the refrigerator door only long enough to remove what you need, food will keep for many hours as you travel. Likewise, the seals on the freezer will keep things frozen for several hours, even on the hottest days, if you don't open the door. Ice cream may soften, but should not melt.

If you are unsure of the temperature inside your refrigerator and concerned about spoilage, purchase and use a refrigerator thermometer. Most experts recommend an inside temperature between 33 and 40 degrees. According to the FDA, food spoilage can begin to occur in certain foods if the temperature is maintained above 40 degrees for more than a few hours.

Here are some additional tips to help maintain the temperature in your refrigerator when you are traveling with propane off:

Keep drinks, lunch, and other items you'll want during the day's travel in a small ice chest outside of the refrigerator.

Prepare meals and snacks prior to leaving and place them in a spot in the refrigerator where you can quickly open the door and retrieve all items at once.

Turn the refrigerator to the coldest setting the night before you'll be traveling. Leave it there until you leave the next day. It will maintain a colder temperature for a longer period of time.
When traveling with the propane off, remember to also turn the appliances off. Many appliances now have an electric ignition that causes sparking when lighting the pilot light. This could also trigger an explosion at a fuel stop. You must turn the propane off at the tank for total safety. If there is an accident, having your propane turned off avoids a situation where a line breakage in an accident feeds a fire caused by the accident. Some three-way refrigerators give the option of operating on 12 volts while you are going down the road. Using this option, if you have it, is the safest choice.

If you travel with your generator running, you can turn your refrigerator to the electric setting. You are doing your generator a favor by having as many appliances turned on as possible-in fact, generators operate most efficiently under a full load.

Most new motorhomes are wired so that the refrigerator cannot be operated on electricity from the inverter, while going down the road. This is done because the refrigerator requires a lot of energy. Operating the refrigerator on electricity while traveling has been known to cause premature alternator failure on the vehicle while it is trying to keep up with the demand. If your vehicle is wired so you can operate the refrigerator with the inverter on, and you have to replace your alternator frequently, you should take this into consideration.

If safety is your first priority, then the clear choice is to drive with your propane turned off. IF you feel the benefits of driving with your propane on outweigh the potential dangers, then you may choose to keep it turned on. Either way, you're making an informed choice."

As I said earlier, To each his own!!!! We are told there is an Overflow Protection Device built into the new tanks that shut the flow off if it senses an overflow, but I keep reading how cheap the propane valves and regulators are that I am not willing to put my life or DW life in the hands of such iffy equipment. It seems to me we spend our entire lives trying to eliminate mistakes and minimize hazardous situations for our protection. I guess I subscribe to the old adage of "Better Safe than Sorry"! I will continue to drive with them off. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.....
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:49 AM   #23
rving2us
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We always have our propane on for the fridge and have not experienced any problems. I have loaded the shelves in fridge to heavey and broken a couple of them on the door but that is the bane of having a rear kitchen unit. I have never used the furnace while moving but would if the need arose.
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:11 AM   #24
jengelkirk
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Wow! I guess I have created a hot topic! Thanks for everyone's feedback. Actually, we generally have traveled with only the frig on, never the furnace or water heater. And, we generally only have it on going to the campsite. Our rig is just too big to bring into our neighborhood and we live on a cul-de-sac which makes it impossible to turn around. We store our Monty about 3-4 miles away so it would not be a problem to go the night before to turn it on and load up some stuff. We have not taken any really long trips (i.e., more than 5-6 hours) so I don't have experience with how cold the frig will stay if we have to go longer. We do plan on some multi-day long trips in the coming months however. I did purchase a cooler that can be plugged into the Monty's DC outlet in the storage area and that seems to work. I just put the refrigerated stuff in the frig when we get to the campsite. I think we will try turning the frig to the coldest temp the night before as suggested and then turning it off when we leave. I'll see how long it stays cold.

I was actually more concerned with traveling with the propane on and having an accident, but many of you brought up some other good points about gas stations. I'm not sure we would remember to get out and shut the propane and frig off.

Thanks for all of your feedback - it's alot to evaluate!!

I really do like this site and how helpful everyone is -- great site!

Janet.
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:38 AM   #25
richfaa
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Very good article and written by a expert on the subject. Although we do run with the propane on we have never run with the hot water tank or Furnace on. I am reconsidering running with the fridge on. I have seen a propane tank explosion and it is unbelievable.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:32 AM   #26
JimnJulie
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Thanks for all the input especially the article. Glad to hear a fireman with views both ways, most I have talked with and attended seminars by have all said to turn it off. That being said, we do run with the fridge on!
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:47 AM   #27
ols1932
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Amen! Each one of us "knows" our risks. So, everyone does what they want to do regardless of facts. I've said my piece and won't add anything else to this thread.

Orv
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:38 AM   #28
noneck
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Good article, I travel with a fireman and his SOB...agree "OFF" is best...not swaying any others opinions. I travel with my fridge "on". JMHO
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Old 11-12-2008, 04:36 AM   #29
TLightning
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The bottom line is that it's up to each person to decide what they want to do and how they want to travel.
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:02 AM   #30
jretz
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In older trailers we would travel with the Propane off due to the pilot being on all the time and the possibility that a gust of wind would blow it out leaving the gas keep running (no auto shut offs in those days). Now with the electronic pilots in enclosed areas and auto gas shut offs, if the pilot fails to ignite, we travel with the gas on. There is a lot to be said about shutting the gas off when refueling or going through restricted tunnels but when on the road we still leave ours on.
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:37 AM   #31
Bill and Lisa
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Definately food for thought. We normally run with the fridge on even though I have to turn off the gas to go through the tunnels in Tidewater Area. With a rear kitchen unit it is not so easy to turn the actual fridge off as you have to put out the slides to get to it. And as Weyman pointed out, turning off the gas at the tanks prior to entering a fuel station doesn't really change anything. There is still gas in the lines (when I burn off the gas via the stove it runs for at least on minute on high) and even if the line empties the spark ignitor will still be sparking for several minutes trying to light the gas until it Error faults out.
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:29 PM   #32
mtpocket2
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First hand experience, yes I do. In the early 80's a friend of my brother worked in a gas station that sold propane. A motor home came in and wanted propane. Who knows if he asked if everything was off in the RV. They were in their late teens early 20's and used to party quite a bit . According to the fire department when he disconnected the propane fill hose from the RV the frig pilot caused the gas that escapes when you disconnect to flash. Very bad burns to his face and arms. I don't remember the property damage for sure but I believe there was some. He fully recovered but was not a pretty site at first.
We travel with ours on by the way.
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:46 PM   #33
TLightning
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I think the technology now is much better regarding auto shut offs than it was in the 80s. We had a slide in pick up camper in the 70s...propane was dangerous then...if the refrig propane blew out, the propane did not stop flowing.
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:47 PM   #34
The Weekenders
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We travel with the fridge on. Some good info on this though on the forum.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:20 PM   #35
grampachet
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BC Drivers licensing manual states that during your pre trip inspection you are to insure all propane devices and pilot lights are turned off.

http://www.icbc.com/licensing/pdf_to...ion_MV2024.pdf

We do travel with our fridge on most of the time.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:34 PM   #36
8.1al
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We travel with our fridge off, it hurts nothing, food is cold at end of day.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:23 PM   #37
sailer
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I travel with it on all the time mm,,,sailer
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:40 PM   #38
Okie Guy
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Sometimes I have it on and sometimes I have it off. I always park far far away from any gas pumps.
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:08 PM   #39
simonsrf
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We turn the inverter on, and run the fridge and wireless router/booster on AC while traveling.

See, solar can be economical, green and safe!
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Old 12-01-2008, 03:13 AM   #40
Heli 190
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We travel with the propane on for the frig. Our cat travels in the RV and we have a remote temp indicater and when the temp gets above 85 we run the gen set with the air on. We,ve done this for years with no problems.
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