90 billion bbls of oil... - Montana Owners Club

dsprik · 07-24-2008, 06:28 AM

Interesting, but what do we do about it???

richfaa · 07-24-2008, 07:10 AM

Soon as the price of fuel get down to a point where the consumer feels it is reasonable.We will go right back to our old ways and everyone will forget about 90 B of oil somewhere.

c5racer · 07-24-2008, 07:30 AM

Oil shale in Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah has 800 billion barrels of oil. You might want to talk to your congressman.
http://www.dailyreckoning.com/rpt/OilShale.html

JimF · 07-24-2008, 07:37 AM

It's sad, in 1980 I worked on the Colorado Oil Shale project, also Coal gasifacation and Canadian Tar Sand, all the projects were cancelled by the Republican Party that took over, namely Ronnie R and company. If it had not been for that move in 80 we would be pretty energy independant at this time. Now the talk is about developing the technology, ha, it is in place and in the files of Gulf Oil and the government archives of the old DOE.

dsprik · 07-24-2008, 07:45 AM

Pete, ABSOLUTELY! We have that stuff right here, but they won't let us go get it... Actually the shale process here in our own country could possibly be CHEAPER to turn into the final stage of fuel, than chasing, exploring, producing, then shipping and refining any crude sitting way up under any polar ice cap...

Just doesn't make any sense. We do not explore and produce oil with the same moral environmental scruples that we did in the 60s and 70s. Unfortunately, many environmentalists still fear that they have not changed their ways. They keep pointing to boo boos of that era as examples.

A lot has changed since then.

*On Edit~ I agree, Jim!

Dustytuu · 07-24-2008, 09:37 AM

Our Colorado congressmen have voted down every bill to drill or use oil in Colorado. One was quoted yesterday, he will not let big business ruin Colorado. Guess he can afford $$$ for fuel.

TLightning · 07-25-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by dsprik

Interesting, but what do we do about it???

Obviously, the answer is we drill there and everywhere else in the USA where oil/gas is available. The hold up is congress who bows to the envirnmental wackos. Plus the congress does not want to do anything that could possibly make the President look good.

hookman · 07-25-2008, 03:02 PM

The Canadian Tar Sands are in production and have been working since the late 60's and Ronnie had no control of them as Canada is a separtate country.

bsmeaton · 07-25-2008, 03:44 PM

Having relatives on the western slope, I've also heard the other side of the story and sympathize somewhat with their issue. The Petrochem industry has a heavy hand and gains a lot of power when the commodity becomes scarce. Motivation gets focused onto profit, with the good of the country and the future of the land owner falling way off the priority list. When the bully gets in town and he has a license to "drill", compromise is usually out of the question by then.

What irritates most folks there, is they will loose everything, and when dust clears and the sludge ponds remain, most of the oil produced will be sold to developing companies such as India or China, not the US. Our dollar is so weak, we could never compete for our own oil.

I don't know if anyone has played the computer game "Age of Empires", but to me its very real and based on very real history. The only way you can win the game is to conquer and steal all of your neighboring tribes resources first, and only after they are exhausted, return to your own. The neighboring tribes are helpless and wither away. I hear the Soviet Union is already staking claim on the Antartic oil reserves even though they hold vast quantities of undeveloped resources in their own country, and here we are thinking about draining our own savings account to get by. Shame shame. If we use up what's in our backyard, we no longer are in the game and we will be groveling on our knees for a cup of spilled oil to heat our cave.

Oil independance is a pipe dream.

dsprik · 07-25-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by bsmeaton

What irritates most folks there, is they will loose everything, and when dust clears and the sludge ponds remain, most of the oil produced will be sold to developing companies such as India or China, not the US. Our dollar is so weak, we could never compete for our own oil.

Brad, you are right on the money. This is indeed a terrible problem (except for the sludge ponds, which they can dispose of now - but I understand that concern if you have ever seen the Russian oil fields). I see no easy way to resolve this.

I was watching "Tougher in Alaska" the other night in the History Channel and they were highlighting the coal mining industry and the rail system used to move the coal. This is the cleanest coal in the US. They produce a major percent of this type of coal. They they spent the entire hour following the train from the mine all the way to an Alaskan port and then loaded up this huge freighter bound for.........

China.

c5racer · 07-25-2008, 07:04 PM

If you want more oil, check this out.
http://www.gop.gov/energy/
I'll take oil over dirt anytime.

dsprik · 07-26-2008, 03:11 AM

Lester, That is an excellent link and subsequent video. Everyone in America should see that video, then write or call their Congressman.

HamRad · 07-26-2008, 05:56 AM

All you "drill and drill everywhere" group. I wish it were that simple. Oil independence is NOT going to happen the way we are going. All you are saying by promoting the "drill everywhere" philosophy is "let's continue to be dependent on oil". Sorry folks but that is all you are doing.

We must pass rules and regulations that will encourage and promote alternatives to oil. Once we do that we will start to see some real "oil independence". It will take awhile but at least it would get us on the road to where we must be.

Unfortunately we have such a powerful oil lobby in this country that we may never see meaningful legislation for alternatives to oil. Remember that the oil folks have one thing in mind. If you think it is to provide us with fuel then you are sadly mistaken. They are in the business for one thing and one thing only. To make money for the owners/shareholders! Note that all or nearly all of the oil companies are multi-national in nature. They do not owe their allegiance to anything or anyone except as noted above. This is in spite of their very slick television commercials.

And Brad understates the ruthlessness of the oil companies once they get the green light to open up a new area for prospecting. Remember what they are in business for!

We have to pressure our law makers to do the right thing. And the right thing is NOT drilling willy nilly but actually encouraging and promoting true alternatives to oil. We simply cannot continue our past processes. Look where it has gotten us. If that picture is not clear enough to get us to change then we are doomed!

Good luck to us all!

HamRad

richfaa · 07-26-2008, 06:59 AM

Words of wisdom Hamrad... Wind, solar, nuclear, Coal, Our nearly sole dependence on oil got use in this mess..why would we want to continue on the same path.

MacDR50 · 07-26-2008, 07:20 AM

Add hydrogen to that mix alternatives. Of course since a distribution network is needed it is a long way off even when it is economical. We will see it in Japan and Europe first as they are cpmpletely dependent on imported oil.

dsprik · 07-26-2008, 07:24 AM

We are the only country in the world that sits on known reserves and does not drill for it. Each state has their own controls on the oil companies. Some of these states' inspectors and regulators are extremely strict. In Mich, for instance, the state has restricted drilling in several places. Has nothing to do with federal mandates or laws. Each state has total control over what an oil company does or doesn't do. State inspectors are on location constantly.

The permit process to drill is exhaustive and fines are levied for any minor environmental incident, which is extremely rare with the all the safeguards put in place by the state. Each state is much more concerned about their environment/tourism than any oil company would be. They are good guardians of the environment, while allowing for reasonable exploration and production.

We need an aggressive drilling and exploration program AND and aggressive alternative energy development program. I don't understand why people think we can only have one or the other? We need both. We will never drill everywhere there is oil here. We do need to produce the areas that will be the most productive, though.

More important than all of the discussion above is fact that we are currently pumping and mining hundreds of millions (billions?) worth of energy products and much is not staying in this country. I think we need to look into curtailing that a little.

If we were the world's leading producer of oil, but shipped 90% of it overseas, what good is that???

c5racer · 07-26-2008, 08:08 AM

What is the alternative to oil for towing a fifth wheel down the road, don't think there will ever be one?

richfaa · 07-26-2008, 08:16 AM

i can not find good data on us oil exports after 2006 but in 2006 we were NOT in the top 15 oil exporting nations but were number one in consumption and imports. HUmmmmmmm..

How about this ??? Anyone confirm this???

US oil from some fields is exported because we simply dont have the refineries to refine the heavy crude that is located in the US. This type of crude oil takes special oil refineries to filter out the impurities. We dont have these refineries in the US because we have not built a refinery in over 30 years.

richfaa · 07-26-2008, 08:51 AM

Alternative fuel does not mean no oil..but alternative fuel can be use to ease the oil demand. Home heating, etc. Nuke power , solar power and wind power to generate electricity. Need for oil and dependency on oil are two different things.

dsprik · 07-26-2008, 08:58 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

i can not find good data on us oil exports after 2006 but in 2006 we were NOT in the top 15 oil exporting nations but were number one in consumption and imports. HUmmmmmmm..

How about this ??? Anyone confirm this???

US oil from some fields is exported because we simply dont have the refineries to refine the heavy crude that is located in the US. This type of crude oil takes special oil refineries to filter out the impurities. We dont have these refineries in the US because we have not built a refinery in over 30 years.

Rich, this is something else someone can check on... I wonder how much crude we are shipping out of the country to be refined, then sold back to us as fuel, and how much crude are we importing from other countries that we are then refining in our refineries that that keeps them so busy that we have to ship our own crude out to other countries to refine and then sell back to us???

Did everyone follow that???

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