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Old 11-23-2018, 08:05 AM   #1
Wicked1
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Cold Weather Camping

Ok so been flushing grey tanks here in PA but temp went down to Zero last night and went to flush my Black tank and release the grey water however it seems the valves for Black and Grey tanks are frozen either won’t pull out or if they pull liquids are frozen at the valve in the tanks.

I can wait until later when the temp goes up also used a heat gun to free up one valve but have the heating pads on the tanks but doesn’t seem to help on a 2018 Monty 3121RL.

If this is zero rated I don’t think I will ever camp in it below 20 degrees as I don’t need this issue every time.

Wondering if anyone has a trick to help the valves get warmer but we have the heat going and tank warmers on and RV is sitting in the sun just that temps only came up to 10-15 degrees so far.

Does running very hot water into the tanks help this? Logically I think it would but not sure theoretically it would work.
 
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Old 11-23-2018, 08:32 AM   #2
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Very hot water could help. If they are camping were Zero temps and winds are possible many find a way to skirt the rig and put a heat lamp or similar device under there.
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Old 11-23-2018, 10:16 AM   #3
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So far Hot water in the tanks and a heat gun have helped but Black Tank won’t budge and I don’t want to break the cable by pulling too hard, well we have some time and B tank should free up as temps are going into lower 40’s next 2 days just so frustrating but getting there heat gun helped too.
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Old 11-23-2018, 03:04 PM   #4
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Wicked,

Recommend you wait for the little warmer weather so you don't break something. We have no problem going 8-10 days without dumping the black tank with 2 people so it should be the last tank to worry about. Keep the furnace on even if you have other heat sources available.
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:02 PM   #5
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Success we put lots of hot water in the grey tanks and black tank and I heated the valves wheee they connect to each tank and the frozen valves finally released, all tanks were filled to the top just about for a week so nice to know they are all empty.

Adding hot water to the tanks def helped but black tank I did have to heat the valve u serenata with the heat gun from a distance so we are good now but thanks for all the input.

A heat gun is a must have in and RV for 12volt wiring and warming up a frozen Valve....lol
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Old 11-24-2018, 08:45 AM   #6
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As you are testament to ... the advertising of cold weather tolerance of these units makes for a good sales pitch yet disappointment in application. SOB's are no better in 0 - 20 degree temps.
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:15 PM   #7
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If you have AC power, plug in a couple of drop lights with 60 watt (old style bulbs) and put them by the tank pull handles. I get the $6 lights at WM.
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:39 PM   #8
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As you are testament to ... the advertising of cold weather tolerance of these units makes for a good sales pitch yet disappointment in application. SOB's are no better in 0 - 20 degree temps.
Oh I know not bashing Montana, just stating the rating of Zero Degrees leaves me thinking, um no way would I camp a lot in these temps.

That being said it held up ok in the several below freezing temps and 2 nights of Zero or lower but that is with a lot of preppi gbon my end getting the unit ready to deal with this.

The heating pads on the tanks help, I have found some little gaps in the belly by sitting in the basement with the doors closed and finding spots where light came in, so some quick fixing helps keep the wind out of the belly but still not a sealed unit in any regard and our other SOB 5th wheel had all the same cold weather issues, even though there was no heat duct in the basement we did stay warm inside albeit went thru (2) 30# LP bottles to stay warm for a week so not bad for $40 worth of LP.
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:40 PM   #9
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The term all season unit means you can freeze or roast in all of the seasons.
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:58 PM   #10
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Very hot water could help. If they are camping were Zero temps and winds are possible many find a way to skirt the rig and put a heat lamp or similar device under there.
Ok Dick since we will be arriving in Carlsbad just as winter really kicks into high gear. Just how big of an issue is this going to be? What do you recommend we consider doing to prep?

The tanks do have heat on them but not sure how good it is. Maybe some heat tapes on the discharge pipe and valves? Skirting? I did notice one of the rigs there had foil backed Styrofoam cut to fit with wood lattice work for additional support. That didn't look too bad.
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Old 11-24-2018, 05:26 PM   #11
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I skirt my fiver and put a Big Buddy and a fan underneath for extremely cold weather. Also, after emptying my tanks, I'll put some RV antifreeze into them, as well.
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Old 11-24-2018, 06:36 PM   #12
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I skirt my fiver and put a Big Buddy and a fan underneath for extremely cold weather. Also, after emptying my tanks, I'll put some RV antifreeze into them, as well.
Hopefully that performs better than the hog football team did this year.......Its tough being a Hog fan this year for sure!

What do you use for skirting?
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Old 11-24-2018, 09:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Wicked1 View Post
Ok so been flushing grey tanks here in PA but temp went down to Zero last night and went to flush my Black tank and release the grey water however it seems the valves for Black and Grey tanks are frozen either won’t pull out or if they pull liquids are frozen at the valve in the tanks.

I can wait until later when the temp goes up also used a heat gun to free up one valve but have the heating pads on the tanks but doesn’t seem to help on a 2018 Monty 3121RL.

If this is zero rated I don’t think I will ever camp in it below 20 degrees as I don’t need this issue every time.

Wondering if anyone has a trick to help the valves get warmer but we have the heat going and tank warmers on and RV is sitting in the sun just that temps only came up to 10-15 degrees so far.

Does running very hot water into the tanks help this? Logically I think it would but not sure theoretically it would work.
We were in cabelas parking lot Thursday night in pa and it was cold. What we did with the tanks empty i poured a gallon of antifreeze into each one and just cracked each valve to get it all around. That worked real well, just had the water line to pump freeze up, it's the weak link, was able to thaw it in the am. Next upgrade will be 12 volt heat trace and insulation on water lines and make sure the heat is blowing that way. Was thinking about adding a little pool salt to the fresh water since we only use it for bathing and cleaning. No different than in our pool the whole system is plastic. FYI tractor supply fills propane, it was 2.39 a gallon 16$ to fill a 30lb tank was very reasonable and they're open till 9pm.
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Old 11-24-2018, 09:55 PM   #14
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If you go with the 12 volt heat trace is best to tape over the plastic tubing with aluminum tape and then insulate. Could also heat trace and insulate the valves as well. It's self regulating and thermostatically controlled so it only heats up as needed.
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Old 11-25-2018, 03:58 PM   #15
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well it looks like 12 volt heat trace is the way to go, adding salt similar to a pool would only lower the freeze point to about 28deg. I found this that looks interesting...

The Kompensator heat cable is supplied as a job-ready, pre-assembled system that is a safe and reliable solution for all metallic and non-metallic pipe types and materials of many sizes. This includes but is not limited to copper, PEX, polyethylene, ABS, PVC, galvanized, stainless, ductile iron, rubber, vinyl and more. Even in applications where pipes are intended to be dry for short or extended periods of time, Kompensator will never over-heat or melt the pipe due to its advanced self-regulating trace heating technology.

In most applications, the Kompensator system is installed in a single run along the pipe, reducing the overall length of heat tape cable needed by as much as 60%. For larger pipe diameters or where more heat is required, a dual (double) trace system is adequate and if wrapping around valves is required the Kompensator heating cable can safety overlap itself without over heating at the point of contact.

Kompensator employs the unique and advanced performance of self-regulating heat cable technology. Constructed of self-regulating heating cable technology the Kompensator system can effectively increase heat and energy output microscopically to point along its length which are cold and simultaneously reduce heat and energy output to points which are warm. You never have to worry about the Kompensator heating cable overheating causing risk of melting and fire because of the self-regulating heat cable technology.

Kompensator gives you the peace of mind of reliable freeze protection without the risk of traditional heat tapes. It has become an essential product for firefighters, heavy equipment operators, truckers and RV manufactures to provide safe and reliable freeze protection to the vehicles they rely on. When implemented in the heavy equipment industry Kompensator systems are capable of maintaining hydraulic oil and other fluid viscosities in cold temperatures, minimizing stress while maximizing winter performance. The Kompensator system is so versatile that it can be used in a variety of other applications where 12 volt and 24 volt power is available, including small diameter fluid hoses, appliance and comfort heating, condensate freeze protection, oil lines, hydraulic hoses, pumps and compressed air systems.

To further increase the energy efficiency of your Kompensator pipe warmer system, it is recommended to add thermal insulation and a thermostat. The additional thermal insulation works to reduce heat loss, and the thermostat allows you to duty cycle your Kompensator system based on external pipe temperature. Both accessories combined can increase energy efficiency by as much as 80%.
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Old 11-25-2018, 04:27 PM   #16
Wicked1
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We don’t camp a lot in cold weather however I already started looking into a pipe wrap that I can wrap around the valves under my Coach.

Looks like besides having our Montana having heat ductwork underneath it might help wrapping the thermo wire around the c valves and plug it in when it is going to drop below 32
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:19 PM   #17
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Not ready to be a snowbird yet and will never RV in cold weather enough to go thru the motions of what is talked about here. My wife freezes up at anything below 70F no matter how many layers she has on. We'll just leave the fiver under the RV port for the winter ... sit in the stick house, drink hot chocolate, and make pop corn balls while making Westar Energy rich on all the natural gas we'll use for heating ... Ha!
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:33 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dieselguy View Post
Not ready to be a snowbird yet and will never RV in cold weather enough to go thru the motions of what is talked about here. My wife freezes up at anything below 70F no matter how many layers she has on. We'll just leave the fiver under the RV port for the winter ... sit in the stick house, drink hot chocolate, and make pop corn balls while making Westar Energy rich on all the natural gas we'll use for heating ... Ha!
My wife doesn't care for the cold either but she is a good sport, sat around the fire Friday night at 20 deg. she said she had a great time, wants to continue winter camping, so we will see,Ill get the rig set up. It is a great time of the year for hiking,snowshoeing & snowmobiling. I just hate the clean up after winter trips.
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:00 PM   #19
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You have a good gal there ... if I pushed the winter wonderland experience, I'd be headed toward the "Big D" and I don't mean Dallas. Then ... she'd probably end up with the fiver . This is a shot out my Mom's front door where we're socked in tonight in MO.
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:20 PM   #20
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This 13 3402 Big sky is our 2nd Montana and our 6th RV. We learned early on that no matter what the manufacturer says these things do not do well in cold weather. We had a few days here in Florida a few years ago of temps in the mid 20's at night and mid 40's low 50's during the day. We and everyone else in the campground was using a tank of propane every 3/4 days and freezing our butts off. When still at our S&B in Northern Ohio with our previous 4 Rv's we put them away for the winter no later than mid October and did not get them out till mid March....maybe.
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