tow capability

[ramblingrhodes]

Hello folks

We currently own a relatively light fifth wheel and will be looking to trade in the next year or so. Recently ,we were at a local dealer to look at the Montana and were favourably impressed. Our tow vehicle is a 2010 Silverado 2500 HD, 4WD, Crew Cab with Std. box, Duramax Diesel 6.6, 3.73 Raxalratio, GVWR - 9,200 lb, GCWR - 22,000 lb, Drive Axle GAWR - 6,084 lb, Max Pin Capacity - 2,500 lb, Max Trailering Capacity - 13,900 lb,

The Montana we viewed was a 3400RL with a UHW of 2,140 lb, UVW of 12,346 lb,. The dealer assured me that I could tow the unit legally, with confidence and little difficulty.

I would appreciate folks, if you would comment on our vehicle and its capability to pull the Montana.

Cheers.

[DQDick]

Kind of depends on what you plan to do with it. Part timing or full timing and your going to add a good deal of weight to the rig. That being said my rig weighs out fine for my truck, but being a Mega Cab and some special order things from the factory makes mine an odd 2500HD. If I had it to do again I would have bought a dually just for handling in cross winds, however.

[snfexpress]

I agree with Dick. While our rig, a 2009 Big Sky, is heavier than its 3400 equivalent, we would suggest a dually 1 ton. Our pin weight is considerably more than 2,500 pounds. I would suggest that you get the dealer to hook it up to his truck and take it to the Cat scales for real world weights, knowing you will increase said weight when you put stuff in your new rig.

That being said, many people tow with a 2500 short bed. We like the fact that we don't get pushed sideways with wind or passing semi's. And, because we park in the back forty, we walk more!

[1retired06]

Plenty of 2500s out there pulling Montana and other big fivers. I do not agree with your dealer comments based on the numbers you cited. By the time you load that unit up, you will likely exceed 13.9K and will not be "legal".

[jwedell]

I had the same truck as yours pulling a 2006 3500rl. The truck could pull anything but the carrying capacity is where it becomes questionable. If you take the 2500 lb carrying capacity and subtract the things you add ( hitch 150 lbs, tool box 25 lbs, we had 2 Honda 2000 gens 50 lbs each plus anything else in the bed plus the DW and other riders ) we were over the capacity of the truck but most important the capacity of the tires. If you check the carrying capacity of the tires it is the carrying capacity of the truck. When we pulled it we did get some tail waging the dog. In an emergency situitation you may not be able to control it. We bit the bullett and moved up to a 3500 GMC dually and it is rock solid. Good luck in your decision, have fun and be safe. John

[Art]

I agree with 1retired06. You will see more 2500 series pulling Montanas than duallies. There seems to be a lot of questions on this forum regarding spring sag on these trucks since you are maxing out the capacity. I won't exchange my dually for any 2500 series. That being said, yes...it is a pain since it does not go through carwashes. I have never had a wind issue and I've pulled it some substantial "breezes". Good luck on your decision.

[William H. Collier]

quote:Originally posted by 1retired06

Plenty of 2500s out there pulling Montana and other big fivers. I do not agree with your dealer comments based on the numbers you cited. By the time you load that unit up, you will likely exceed 13.9K and will not be "legal".

Unless you exceed 18,000 lbs per axel on your tow vehicle you are legal.

[BusyCarol]

When we were trying to figure out which rig we should choose and what our weight range would be I found a wonderful page. It is on RV.net and it is a thread where everyone posted their truck model and options, their extras (auxiliary fuel, etc), what they were carrying (kids, wife, dogs, how much fresh water, how much gear, etc) and then they post their ACTUAL CAT Scale weights with and without the trailer so you can see EXACTLY what the numbers end up looking like. There is 54 pages of ACTUAL WEIGHTS so feel free to scan through and see if you can find something similar to your configuration. I have heard that the average family of four carries about 1000-1500lb worth of stuff/water/propane for a trip. Ours worked out to be around 1000 and we have 3 of us + 2 dogs.

Here is the link:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/20298675.cfm

I found the sales reps (I went to three dealers) ALWAYS tell you your truck will have no problem towing. I think as long as you show up with a truck, not a SUV or Van, they are going to say you are good to go. As you can see we have a 2002 Ford F250 and have driven our 2013 3100RL up Sylvan Pass in Yellowstone, which is 8500+ feet, with heavy winds and we were fine. However, our truck is fully loaded with the additional leaf springs, larger radiator, transmission cooler, Banks guages, bigger exhaust, and the rest of the works. Our Ford dealership said we could tow up to 14,500lb based on our trucks VIN and the trailer package. We are under that based on a weight that we took the other day...can't remember exactly what it was but it was around 13,000+ with full fresh water, gear, and propane. We chose the 3100RL to give us a little more room to add stuff (washer/dryer at 148lb, generator at 279lb, etc). The 3400RL was a little too close for comfort on our weights and we wouldn't have room to add stuff.

We had the same concerns with numbers that you do! We wanted to make sure we were safe and that we could handle the load. We plan on moving to a larger truck in the future but the money tree hasn't leafed out yet so that is not an option. We would go to a 1ton Ford and not sure about the dually. My brother tows all kinds of trailers with MANY horses and heavier than our trailer with a Ford F250 SWD. Ultimately it is what you are comfortable with. We are happy with our rig and if a bunch of money were to drop in our lap we would go to a bigger truck to give us some more wiggle room. Good luck on this big decision!!!

[Capt Kidd]

We tow with a Dodge 3500 (1 ton) megacab not a dually. I don't see the need for a dually. Ours is perfectly stable. We do have 4.10 gearing and I would recommend this. Going up hills and stuff the 3.73s are not enough in my opinion.

[DonandBonnie]

We went to a truck salesman who specialized in matching the truck to the load it was destined to pull. At the time we were looking at a 3400RL. We gave him the specs and asked for his recommendation. He said that a 3/4 ton could pull the rig, but if we fully loaded it we would be slightly over the weight limit. Also it would not have the pep pulling serious hills. His recommendation was that if cost was the issue we could get by with the 3/4 ton truck provided we understood the limitations. A one ton would give us peace of mind knowing that if we kept the trailer weight legal we would not have any issues hauling it. We opted for the one ton dually and have not regretted it. We still have the same truck and have been told it's perfect for the 3700RL that we will take delivery of in about three weeks.

[pineranch]

BusyCarol,
Sent you a PM.
Mike

[BusyCarol]

Got it! Thanks Mike!

[Art-n-Marge]

The first problem is dealing with Unladen Weights. As soon as you drive the trailer off the lot and start loading up, it will never weigh those unladen weights again!! ALWAYS, go by the GTWR, and nothing else because even if you don't load the trailer up fully, it will get there, with supplies, clothing, and stuff in the tanks even when you don't realize it. EVERYTHING adds to the weight.

So go by the GTWR then from 18% to 25% of whatever that weight will be on the pin (not 15%) because Montys are residential trailers and carry much of there weight at the pin unlike fifth wheel utility trailers, horse trailers and others that are no where near that size at the pin and will weigh about 15% to 18% at the pin. The 1/4 tons you see towing Montys are either towing older Montys that had way less weight capacities or they are VERY close, if not overweight with newer rigs. Only the scales will tell you.

Any salesman that justifies you and your rig by the unladen weights is not your friend, they are your salesman and want your money first. It's YOUR problem when they get you to drive it off the lot because they know as well as you should that ignorance of the law is your problem and never theirs and its YOUR job to ensure compliance. Until then it's wouldas, couldas and shouldas, not what IS!

In my opinion from the numbers you've supplied and others have agreed, you will be overweight. You're probably gonna need a dually. Don't forget as you start adding options and accessories to the rig, these are NOT included in the Unladen weight and will take away from the Cargo weight as they eat at the Gross Trailer Weight Rating.

I am the word of experience and I trusted a salesman and GOT BURNED! Never again! I was lucky enough to be able to solve my problem, but I will never get caught overweight again!

[RickW]

In my opinion plan for the trailer being loaded at it max weight. It is easier to plan for the max then looking at the empty weight and then trying to figuring out how much weight you are putting in.

My '09 3400RL has a axle weight of 12900 (weighed just 4 months ago), this does not include my pin weight. We did not measure my pin weight so I don't have an exact number but most who have report their pin weights to be around 18%~20% of the total weight of the trailer. So I figure my pin is in the neighborhood of 3k#. Most other 3400RL owners who do know their actual pin weight also report their actual pin weight around the 3k# mark as well. When I bought the Monty the sales litature said my pin weight was 2100#. I am figuring my total weight is just under 16k#, the max weight allowed on the Montana. Needless to say we take everything with us.

Most salesmen are great in teaching you about the different features and facts about their product that they are selling but when it comes to matching their product with something you already have they will almost always tell you that what you have will work with what they are selling. From his point of view it is hard to sell you a $60k trailer if you also have to go out and buy a $60k truck too.

When we started trailer shopping we knew depending on what we decided on we were most likely going to have to also purchase a different truck. At the time we had a 2001 F250. The two other trailers on our short list both came in with a max weight 18k#. When the trailer salesman at each dealership asked what truck we currently had, I answered each the same. I told them exactly what we had. On the Montana I also told him that I would most likely need more truck and with the DRV Select Suite & KZ Eseculade I said I would need more truck. At DRV he did not agree or disagree with me but responded that most customers do use a 1 ton dually to pull a DRV. The Montana salesman agreed that more would be better but that I would be "ok" until we were ready to purchase a new truck. At KZ the salesman wanted the sale so bad he kept insisting that my F250 was more than enough truck to safely pull a 18k# trailer. As the tone of my voice started to change as the salesman kept pushing, the factory rep who was also present at the RV show jumped in. He agreed with my opinion that the F250 was not the right truck for pulling that trailer. The dealership salesman was livid. After we left and were walking down the next row we could see the salesman and the factory rep have a very lively discussion.

In the end we ultimately decided on the Montana. Our original plan was to use the F250 for a few years and then replace it with a 1 ton dually. Between March when we purchased the trailer and June when we took our long summer vacation we took several smaller trips to shake down the trailer, no problems. During our June trip, our first out west with the Montana we quickly felt that we were going to need to make the jump to a different truck sooner and not later. While we ultimately decided on a totally different truck for our TV, I am more than confident that even if we did decide to go with a 1 ton dually we would have been much happier with it than the 3/4 ton.

All 3 of the 1 tons are very capable. The big thing you have to watch is payload for the truck. It is the pin weight that it going to get you in trouble. All 3 have very high GCVW on the new trucks today.

[TLightning]

Here's the bottom line, that has been put on here many times before:

ACTUAL tow capacity = GCWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle when ready to tow. As suggested earlier, use the RV's GVWR and work the numbers. You are in dually country. Don't want to insult your intelligence, but don't forget to add the pin weight to the truck's weight and subtract it from the RV's weight.

[berridge]

To be legal the weight of your truck FULLY LOADED ie with passengers tools etc and with the loaded trailer attached must not exceed the GVWR which in your case is 9200 lbs. I would bet that you will exceed the GVWR by several hundred pounds. We have a one ton Ford and a Monty 3075 and we are within the GVWR but not by much. Get a one ton- be safe and legal.

[Sinterior]

Don't believe the max pin weight of 2500lbs. My old 2006 2500HD GM diesel truck, after the 5th wheel hitch, spray on liner, tool box with 150lbs "stuff", full fuel tank, and me and Terry, left 1800lbs pin weight to be at the trucks 9200lb GVWR.

[Paddler]

When we purchased our 2011 3400RL we pulled it with an 07 GMC 2500 D/A 2WD. After getting the trailer home and finding this site, I discovered I was easily 500 lbs over the trucks max payload. We towed the Monty for six months short distances,even added air bags to try to make the ride a little better, then upgraded to a 3500 dually. Night and day difference between the two vehicles. My suggestion, Don't buy the 3400 if you can't afford to upgrade the truck.

[1retired06]

Bottom line, is that when you knowingly tow more that the stated capacity of the truck, you accept increased vehicle wear and tear and legal liability risk.

[ramblingrhodes]

Thanks to everyone for their valuable input. It's clear we will need to take a step back to consider carefully our choices around the appropriate combination.. perhaps remaining with the mid-profile units for the short term.

Cheers.