Weight on my new 3475RL - Montana Owners Club

ejc1214 · 02-05-2006, 10:44 AM

Hi all thought you might all want to know some of my weights since I got a new Monty with high-gloss exterior.
I have a 2006 3500 DRW 4x4 CC with LBZ Duramax/6 speed Allison.
These are my cat scale weights with me, DW and daughter in TV,full fuel, 1/3 water, pretty much what we would bring to camp for week-ends and three bikes on the Monty:

Steer axle: 4680lbs
Drive axle: 5940lbs
Trailer axle: 10,220lbs
Gross weight: 20,840lbs

I am going back to same scales sometimes this week or next and weigh the truck but I am guessing that my truck with full fuel, me, my DW and daughter would weigh about same as my last 2003 DRW, 7500lbs.
Based on that guess and last truck weight I would think my Monty would weigh about 13,340lbs, giving me about 700lbs of additional CCC. But since I have 6000lbs axles and my truck is carrying looks like 3120lbs pin weight(13,340-10,220)would it not be save to be able to add up to another 1700lbs of cargo in the Monty and still be save on GVW of the Monty? 14000lbs-10220lbs=3780lbs
Am I thinking about this the wrong way since the truck is carrying 3120lbs out of the 13,340 and Monty is rated for 14000lbs there should not be any stress on th Monty right? Not that I would be carrying that much, just asking for discussion sake.
Any insight to this?

richfaa · 02-05-2006, 10:59 AM

I am not sure I understand the figures.Is the trailer weight 10,220, That seems light and if it is 13,340 that seems heavy..

Montana Sky · 02-05-2006, 11:58 AM

ejc1214,
Once you get the truck weight it will be easier to figure what your king pin weights. My 3400RL has a kingpin weight of 2,100 lbs and I know the 3400RL has a pretty light kingpin compared to other Montana's. I also have 11,250 lbs on the coach axles giving me a GVWR of 13,350 lbs loaded for the summer. If your numbers are close to your thinking it sounds like you have your coach pretty well loaded and ready to hit the road this summer.

ejc1214 · 02-05-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I am not sure I understand the figures.Is the trailer weight 10,220, That seems light and if it is 13,340 that seems heavy..

Rich,
The 10,220 is the actual weight on the trailer axles when hitched to the truck.
The 13,340 is what I am guessing the Monty would weigh alone since the total gross weight with the truck is 20,840 and I am guessing that this 2006 DRW weighs about the same as my 2003 DRW. My 2003 weighed 7300lbs with fuel and me in it and I added 200lbs for my daughter and DW to bring it to 7500lbs. 20840-7500=13340lbs. I might be off about 100 or so but I thing it a is pretty good guess.
I am estimating the Monty weight at 13,340 with the high-gloss finish and bedroom air.
Does that make sense?

ejc1214 · 02-05-2006, 01:53 PM

Yeah Dave,
I took almost everything we had on the Endeavor and loaded the Monty and still have room in the Monty. I don't know what else we can put in it!

Montana Sky · 02-05-2006, 02:03 PM

Dont you just love how much space the Montana has. I did the same thing and still have room for more.

ejc1214 · 02-12-2006, 10:35 AM

Update on weight on my Montana, read original post so I don't have to re-post original figures.

truck only/ truck & Monty

Steer axle: 4620lbs/ 4680lbs
Drive axle: 3660lbs/ 5940lbs
Gross wt: 8280lbs/ 10620lbs

Everything same except without Monty.
This gives me a weight of 12,560lbs for the Monty loaded as described above with a pin weight of about 2400lbs.
I hope this helps those of you that are thinking about ordering a new Monty and considering hi-gloss. I don't have dual-pane windows but I do have second air in bedroom. I went back to same cat scale.

richfaa · 02-12-2006, 11:17 AM

Thats a good number. My guess is the 3400 will be very close,Right now we are not going with the hi gloss finish although we now know weight is not a big issue. Actually we are not all that concerned with the weight as we have plenty of TV to handle it.Just curious..

sreigle · 02-17-2006, 10:03 AM

13,340 for the Montana is probably right in the ballpark and possibly is on the light side of the scale. I highly recommend weighing the rig for those who have not already done that. It is an eye opener. Our 2003 3295RK loaded the way we tow it scales at 14,360. Our GCW with full fuel and both of us in the TV is 22,920, which is only 80 lbs below the truck's 23,000 GCWR. The Montana is 60 lbs over it's GVWR of 14,300.

HamRad · 02-18-2006, 06:47 AM

Hi Steve,
Wow! You are cutting it close. I think our rig was about the same. I was within just a few pounds of all the limits. It just made me too nervous. And we had no wiggle room. That is why we went with the 450. We now have a few more numbers to play with.

Keep on enjoying.

Dennis and Mary Kay

Montana_5470 · 03-19-2006, 12:00 PM

I've been reading this thread and been trying to get my hands around all of these figures. We have an '06 Chevy 2500HD Duramax (LLY) with Allison Transmission. We have the '06 3475RL on order with very similar specs, minus the high gloss option.

I've done my best to put together realistic estimates in order to set my expectations around this beast on wheels.

Here are my numbers:

Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Duramax Deisel

Definition---Weight---Source
GVWR 9,200 Specification
GAWR-F 4,670 Specification
GAWR-R 6,084 Specification
Towing Cap 15,400 Specification
GCWR 22,000 Specification

Truck Specs
Truck Curb Weight 6,800 Estimate (5883 Spec +1000 Mis)
Passengers 600 Estimate (150 lb per person X 4 Persons)
Truck Fuel 216 Calculated (27 gal @ 8lb per gal)
5th Wheel Hitch 160 Specification
Truck Subtotal 7,616 Calculated

3475RL Specs
Montana Weight 11,600 User Input (10,990 + Axels, Wheels)
LP Gas 160 Specification
Batteries 125 Specification (62 lbs x 2)
2nd AC unit 150 Estimate
MISC Weight 500 Estimate
5th Wheel Subtotal 12,535

GCWR 20,151 Calculated
Cargo Capacity 1,849 Calculated Estimate (Estimated GCWR-Spec GCWR)

Let me know your thoughts.

Getting very excited about this, but setting my expectations accordingly.

Wrenchtraveller · 03-19-2006, 01:38 PM

The only weight specs that count on a legal basis are your GVWR and your GCWR.
The axle weight specs always add up to more than the GVWR and that is for a safety margin.

The only way to know your exact legal payload is to weigh the truck with a full tank and people that will be on board when you tow. So if your truck does in fact weigh 7600 pounds and you have a 9200 pound GVWR , then your LEGAL payload is 9200 minus 7600 = 1600 pounds.

Most Montanas put a lot more than 1600 pounds on the pin so you may be over your trucks GVWR.
How serious this is depends on you, some states and provinces are enforcing weight regs and some insurance companies are stating if you are in an accident caused by an overweight vehicle, your insurance is void.

Most 3/4 ton trucks pulling Fivers are going to be over their GVWR before they ever get close to their combined weight rating and that is why so many of us tow our Montanas with 1 ton trucks.

I don't mean to bring you bad news, just the facts. take care.

Montana_5470 · 03-19-2006, 02:06 PM

I guess I'll just have to go to the truck stop this week and find out. I'm hoping that the 1000lb misc that I have accounted for in the truck weight will be overly generous and allow me to include the 2000lb hitch weight stated by Montana in their specs.

Thanks!

Bill Frisbee · 03-19-2006, 03:00 PM

Many people hauling Montys with 3/4 ton pick-ups seem to strengthen their suspensions (reduce suspension sag) by adding air bags. Does this effectively increase the GVWR of the tow vehicle in a "legal" sense that would satisfy state/province weight regulations and/or insurance companies?

rickfox · 03-19-2006, 03:45 PM

As my signature indicates, I am towing a 3400RL (one of the lowest pin weights) with a 3/4 ton Chevy HD. I have also taken numerous CAT scale measurements.

When loaded for short term camping (about 1100# cargo) I am over the GVWR of the TV by 200 pounds. Loading the trailer up with approximately 2300# cargo puts me 700# over the GVWR of the truck. Sad but true. All other weights are within spec. Interestingly, it is my understanding that there is very little piece part difference between my truck and the newer 3500HD SRW 1 tons. Personally, I am not overly concerned about the 200# I'm typically over. I hope nothing happens that will change my mind!

Also make a note that most of the cargo added to the trailer is added somewhere between the trailer axles and the hitch. Adding 1200# of additional cargo (up to 2300#) increased my pin weight by 500#! Because the 3400 pin weight is low to begin with, with this must cargo I am just barely under the rear GAWR of the truck. The 3475 could easily be over.

PS, the added air bags do not increase the legal GVWR of the truck, they simply allow me the adjust the rear axle support for what I consider to be the best and level and ride.

Being from a technical background, I like everything to be by the numbers. Unfortunately, by the numbers, the 3/4 ton comes up short. But I'm still driving it.

Mudchief · 03-20-2006, 12:27 AM

The only true way to know the weight is do do like Ed did and take your unit to a scale. Something to keep in mine. Measure from the center of your axles to the king pin. Now cut that in half and that will be the 50% point. From that point to the king pin will increase from 50% to 100%. As you add weight to the unit the amount added to the king pin will be
determined by where it falls on that percentage scale. If you are a full timer with the basement full it could add a lot. I do a lot of remote camping and when I return home the front holding tanks are full which will add a lot of weight.

richfaa · 03-20-2006, 01:02 AM

As inconvenient as a one ton dually can be at times the above is why we got one. With a GCWR of 23,500lbs, a 12,600g Gvwr(truck) and a 16,100 tow rating for the fifth. Of course the Tv is not a every day ride and is used 95% of the time for Towing.Example the last tank of fuel I got was in mid September and I still have 1/2 of a tank.Everything is a compromise. We did not want to be concerned about pin weight, overloading, sliding hitches, etc, so we got what we needed not what was practicable for us. Such is life...

Montana_5470 · 03-20-2006, 02:49 PM

Update: I just returned from the Local CAT Scales and got some very discouraging news.

My truck with 2 passengers, hitch and a full take of fuel weighed in at about 7460. That doesn't include the kids and all their stuff. That means I only have 1740 lbs to play with on the kingpin weight. From the Montana specs, the hitch will weigh 2000 lbs + cargo percentage. I can't begin to tow anything and be legal.

Lesson Learned!
I'm going to visit my Montana dealer tomorrow and educate them on how to properly sell. I repeatedly asked him, "I can tow this, right", to which he would always reply "You can tow anything on my lot!"

Looks like I'll be more than likely cancelling my Montana.

Fun day

rickfox · 03-20-2006, 04:05 PM

John,

This is not a Montana problem as their trailers are no heavier than others. This is a tow vehicle spec problem that "may" also be a tow vehicle performance problem.

I personally have never heard of a person who was ticketed or found at fault in an accident for being over the GVWR of the TV. I have never heard of an accident where it was determined that overloading was the cause (I'm not talking gross overload where there has been no attention whatsoever paid to reasonableness). I have never personally heard of a heavy duty TV axle or suspension giving away. I have heard of tires being overloaded and failing regarless of whether or not the GVWR has been exceeded.

Its just my guess, but I'll bet there are more 3/4 ton TV's out there pulling 5vers than there are 1 tons. It doesn't make it right or legal, but it just may be a fact.

Nothing like being controversial, uh!

Montana Sky · 03-20-2006, 04:34 PM

The weight of my truck with coach hooked up ready to go comes in 400LBS over GVWR. I am under the CGVWR and the GRAWR of the truck, the payload capacity, and the coach is under the GVWR as well. I am not really that concerned with the 400 lbs since I am under the 22,000 CGVWR. I am not saying it is ok or legal or anything else, it is what works for me and my truck. I have heard rumor that "wonderful" Gov. of my state is talking about making all rv's and trucks that tow them go across the scales before she will let you register your truck for the year. If you are over any of the numbers, you will not be allowed to get the tabs until the numbers all line up. Guess if that time comes I will be looking into a new dually. I am really looking forward to the "all new" 2007 Silverado. Might make a good reason to buy a new truck. =)

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