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Old 01-22-2008, 04:42 PM   #1
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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34 Below Zero . . . and Holding

Oh my word, have we ever been putting our Montana through the "winterizing" test. We were hit with an Arctic blast 2 days ago and the temperature hasn't been above freezing since then. In fact, out where we live, we haven't had a temp in the above-zero range for days. When you see the temperature for Dillon in the Weather Gizmo below, subtract 10 to 15 degrees and you'll have our temperature. We're 35 miles south of town, on the west side of Clark Canyon Reservoir. Since my last post, we moved in a 250-gallon propane tank, ending our tanks-to-town every other day trips. We also moved in two Porta-Potties (HIS/HERS) because we're skirted and it's a full-day's job to unskirt, pull the rig to town, dump the tanks, get back, and reskirt before dark--too much trouble and I'm still teaching, so we were losing a day every weekend to dump tanks. (Moving in those Porta-Potties surely did cut down on our drop-in company!) We can get water from our well, but we fill and then disconnect because of the distance from the well and the freezing temperatures; heat tape to cover the 200 feet of hose from the well to the rig is cost-prohibative, and a foam wrap is useless here. We've lost the hot water occasionally, but ice-cold water showers and shampoos can be tolerated if absolutely necessary. The photos below were taken at 7:45 AM this morning, January 22, before I left for work. (If you're wondering, no, the Porta-Potties have no heat in them, and yes, sprinting out to them during the night, with the coyotes howling and the ever-present threat of wolves, is an adventure. Wolves? Yes. Apparently they forgot they were supposed to stay in Yellowstone National Park. We're currently having a bit of a livestock crisis because several aggressive packs have moved into our area.)

Back to grading AP Literature essays . . . .Carolyn
 
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Old 01-22-2008, 04:45 PM   #2
Icehouse
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We've been wondering how y'all are doing? We have warmed up to the 40's with rain. Yuck. We are supposed to be below freezing again overnight. Hallelujah! Bernie will be PMing you later. Y'all keep hanging in there!!!
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:01 PM   #3
Rondo
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OK Wayne and Carolyn-- did you get the port-a-potties with the built in heaters in them? IF not they could get a little nippy sitting down on them! Keep up informed on your adventure!
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:45 PM   #4
c5racer
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Those port-a-potties look nicer then the outhouse we had when I was growing up in SD. The only water we had was an outside pump that froze up every night in the winter, but we didn't have to buy ice for the icebox. My dad brought home 5 gallons of kerosene for the oil burner in the living room every day and when we were lucky it didn't run out before morning. We heated the house with the wood burning cook stove in the daytime, we burnt cobs mostly. We did get running water when I was a freshman in high school, so things were looking up.
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:16 AM   #5
Wifeofdano
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You are very inspiring as to what one can do.

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Old 01-23-2008, 01:22 AM   #6
Leaseit
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Wayne and Carolyn,
Did I miss the answer about water. How are you getting water to the Montana.
In your post you used the word "Adventure", i was thinking more along the lines of National Geographics RV Special.

Randy
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:52 AM   #7
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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We have a well, but it's about 200 feet from our Montana. When we need to refill the fresh water tank, we get out the hoses and connect just long enough to fill that tank. Until the weather warms up, we can't stay connected 24/7. Like the situation with the Porta-Potties, the fresh water situation isn't ideal, but it's so much better than having to drag the rig into town once a week!
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:56 AM   #8
bncinwv
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That sounds so cool!! (Sorry for the pun, couldn't resist). Here I thought we were roughing it last Easter in the snow and 20 degrees!! I would say you are definitely an inspiration to not only the MOC but to RVer's everywhere!!!
Bingo
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Bingo and Cathy - Our adventures begin in the hills of WV. We are blessed by our 2014 3850FL Big Sky (previous 2011 3750FL and 2007 3400RL) that we pull with a 2007 Chevy Silverado Classic DRW CC dually.
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:19 AM   #9
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Hello, Bernie & Tammy! Love your photos--and we, too, have been wondering how you guys were doing. Where were the photos taken? Any cold-weather survival tricks we should know about? Looking at your rig and knowing you're fulltiming in it has made us wonder again why we are building a house. In fact, I think we've decided to start making plans for downsizing and getting on the road in another 2 years, maybe earlier, and looking at the house as an investment for those plans. (Hope the real estate market stays strong here.) I don't know if I told you, but I drove the Alcan highway a hundred years ago, before it was paved, in a VW van and camped all the way from Houston to Anchorage . . . 7 months pregnant. Guess I didn't know enough to consider what could have happened during that trip! Carolyn
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:21 AM   #10
Icehouse
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So Carolyn,
the adventuresome streak is not new. We are still in Anchorage waiting on MORE paperwork for the consulate. The photos are taken at our campsite in midtown Anchorage. However, currently, the global freezer broke and Anchorage has been in the 40's for 3 days. We have had lots of rain, lost most of our snow and now have solid ice. Gosh, I love Anchorage. I just checked and this morning we are about 25 degrees and we received about an inch of snow last night. Maybe the freezer has been fixed.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:15 AM   #11
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Wayne and Carol, I use a solar shower bag in in the winter. I hang it up in the shower and put a kettke of water on the stove. Pour the kettle of boiling water into shower bag and fill with cold water to desired temp. Makes a great hot shower. Also as I said before we removed toilet from bathroom and plugged waterline. Place porta potti over area where toilet was and use indoors. When full take bottom half of porta potti to outside outhouse and dump into outside honey pot. The type of porti potti I'm talking about you can find in Walmart or a camping store and come in two peices. The top is flush water and bottom is catch tank for waste. No more cold butt out of doors. Just a thought. I've been using my 5er at 10,000 ft for years in the winter.
Jay D.
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:33 PM   #12
scductman
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You folks are amazing and I think it is bad here in SC at 19 degrees in the AM and it gets up to 40 or 50 midday yall hang in there. bobby
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Old 01-27-2008, 02:28 AM   #13
sreigle
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Wow, you folks are putting that Montana to the test!

Wayne and Carolyn, do I take it your internal water lines have not frozen? I'm curious which Montana model and, especially, which year you have. In other words, I'm curious whether you have one of the newer Montanas with the insulated water lines. And also whether you've done any additional insulating in that Montana.

Good luck. I don't like to hear of anyone in that kind of temperatures but it sounds like you are doing just fine.
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Old 01-27-2008, 06:12 AM   #14
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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We have a 2007 3585 with the side aisle and private bath, but I don't think the inside water lines are insulated, if you mean lines inside the walls and above the skirting/heating setup we have. Those walls are incredibly cold, so they must act like a freezer, aiding the freezing of the lines.

Most of the time we have no problem getting hot and cold water, even when the temperature stay well below zero for days. However, if the wind blows with temperatures that low, we lose the hot water quickly and will eventually lose the cold water, too. The lines and drains stay warm in the basement storage area, so we almost always have cold water to the bathroom. But if the wind blows an hour or so when the temperature is below zero, we lose water in the bathroom, too.

We have the rig skirted and have 3 auxiliary heaters under it, but I'm not sure that extra heat helps at all. The wind seems to be the determining factor in what happens to the water. When I say wind, I mean steady wind blowing 30 mph or harder, with gusts up to 65 - 75 mph. We live in a narrow canyon bordered by Clark Canyon reservoir on the east and mountains on the north and south. To the west is a nice, open funnel for that wind, so it's a perfect "wind generating" operation. Every time the weather changes, which is every 2 days or so, the wind starts blowing and continues to blow until the snow arrives. Sometimes that means 2 to 3 days of gale-force winds.

Yesterday is a perfect example of what happens all the time. The morning was sunny but cold--10 degrees; by sunset, we had strong winds that rocked the trailer all night, and we are still being blown around pretty good 18 hours later. We're under a winter storm warning with a foot or two of snow predicted; when that arrives, the wind should quit. Until then, it's pretty miserable for everyone. The dogs are terrified of the flapping and rocking from the wind, so they will chew through their pen (with a heated doghouse) to get to the trailer unless we are here to let them out first. The cat hides under the covers or in the closet until the wind stops. We will take our showers and do the laundry this afternoon, because we'll probably be without water for a day or so when the front arrives if the wind continues to blow after the temperatures drop below zero.

Are we crazy? Maybe. We do wish we hadn't started this building project, though, because we are enjoying RV life, in spite of the weather-related problems, and are constantly reminded by the construction now going on that we could be on the road instead of tied to house plans and headaches! On the bright side, we're learning what we can live without as well as what we absolutely have to have when we do go fulltime. On the "love it and don't want to lose it" side is the private bath; on the "gee, I wish I had" side is more pantry storage and a dedicated place for my computer and peripherals. Still, we could easily live fulltime in the 3585 and will no doubt start out that way. As for the weather, it won't be a factor in where we travel or stop. This sub-zero stuff isn't everyone's cup of tea, but we like it. We'll be splitting a lot of our time between here and Austin, Texas--our real home--as well as traveling all over the country.

I'm an English teacher, so I apologize for this wordy answer. Ask me the time, and I'll tell you how to build a clock . . .
Hope to see you on the road sometime! Carolyn
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:21 AM   #15
Icehouse
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Hey Wayne and Carolyn, we have hit a rock wall with a problem. We are still in Anchorage and it has been below zero for several days. Over the last 2 nights, we will wake up during the night and the inside of the rig is 40 or colder. We aren't sure what's going on. Bernie posted for some help on another thread. Thinking we have a regulator problem on our LP tanks. Our water lines are freezing when we get so cold inside, so we are opening the laundry chute door, taking out the basket and jamming my hairdryer into the convenience center. Within minutes we have hot and cold water. But this 40 or colder inside is a rude awakening. Hopefully someone will be able to give us some help and we can get this fixed. We were nice and cozy before bed last night. A balmy 72 degrees in here. I am worried about it a bit because Bernie is traveling overnight next week and I'll be here with the animals. And I don't know the first darn thing about LP. At least we've made some friends in the park and I can run next door and ask one of the fellas to help me. Y'all hang in there and keep having fun. It is fun in the blooming cold, isn't it???
Tammy
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:50 AM   #16
Icehouse
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Hi W & C,
As Tammy said above we are in a learning curve. We have had Elly Mae 1 month today. Just to give some feedback to you about your freezing water. We do have a different model, but your water lines should still be insulated and in the floor only. Any virtical water lines should be inside cabinets. If you have not done so, insulate those - makes a big difference. They may still ice up, but ours has been far from frozen solid. We also had the same issue with cold walls in our slide out. For us, the slideout of concern was the living room where we have our recliners. We ordered a 110 Volt, plug-in baseboard heater to take the chill off the floor and wall. THIS DOES NOT HEAT THE ROOM directly, but does have some affect. However, the people and the cat love this area as there is no cold draft (or greatly reduced). I would recommend one. We ordered ours from Northern Tools and had it in a few days. They have several models - many direct wire. Be sure to look for one with a plug-in. Tammy mentioned our LP issues. Have you all had any propane issues? When we were in Bethel and temps approached -30, we had propane issues in the stick house there as well. Keep us posted and we can continue to exchange sub-artic camping tips. Like you, we really enjoy this.
Bernie
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:08 AM   #17
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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We've never had a problem with heating the rig EXCEPT when Wayne tried to run the propane generator and heater all night on battery power! That was a newbie learning experience for sure. Duh. At the time, we were hitting 10 below regularly and going through two tanks of propane every couple of days, but we had no problems with the furnace. However, the first time we saw the -40 stuff coming, we bit the bullet and put in a temporary 250 gallon tank to avoid several trips to town during the week to get proprane. With the big tank, we've had no problems at all. Unfortunately, in your situation you can't drag a 250-gallon tank around with you.

About the water lines freezing: I wish I had a schematic or something similar showing exactly where the water lines were located in the walls. We always have the furnace running because we're here all the time (at least ONE of us is here--one of us has to teach school, but I won't name names!), so the rig is warm inside 24/7. I can add insulation to the interior of the cabinets, but it would be nice to know exactly where those water lines are.

I empathize with you about Bernie leaving you to cope with this learning curve because Wayne is leaving me for about 2 weeks the first of February to go check on his 95-year-old mother in Texas. Thankfully, I'm not expecting heating problems because we've had none for nearly 4 months now, and I can manage without water for a day or so, but it would be nice to know I didn't have to deal with the water problem at all. If worse comes to worse, we do have a motel in Dillon that allows pets, and our vet also has a nice boarding facility. Since I'm still teaching, I'd probably have to board the pets. At least we'd all be warm.

I'm anxious to hear the responses to your heating problem--I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's something minor that can be taken care of before Bernie leaves.

Good luck!
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:30 PM   #18
Leaseit
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Caryoln. Good thing you teach english, cause these posts i'm reading like a Jeremiah Johnson novel along with the descriptive suspense. Just make sure to keep your scalps let us know how that Montana is faring in such a fidgety environment.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:03 AM   #19
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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I usually don't reveal my occupation because invariably after posting something, I find mistakes in my writing. However, Montana owners and future Montana owners seem to be an exceptionally nice group of people, so maybe they'll be forgiving of my errors!

The wind didn't subside last night and the snow isn't here yet, but about 3 hours up the road over a foot of the stuff has fallen already, according to the local news. I'll take a foot of snow any day over this constant wind!

Carolyn
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:14 PM   #20
Leaseit
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Wayne and Carolyn

Well if thats where you live, then your going to get snow. Just remember, when life give you snow, you build snowmen. Now get that camera out and lets see some pictures of that beautiful snow. (Hand over mouth snickering as i sit here in 48 degree weather and raining thinking should i put fertilizer on the lawn tomorrow )

Sorry, just had to rib you a little...

Randy in Georgia
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