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Old 10-10-2022, 07:29 AM   #1
wwjdwithca
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Towing Full Pro Vs. Mid Pro

Hello! First time posting here.

I have never owned or even pulled a 5th wheel, and I've been having a very hard time finding information on this subject, so I decided I would just go ask the question myself to the forum for the 5th wheel that I believe to be the gold standard; so you guys must be the gold standard in knowledge

So my question is as follows; How much difference does it really make going from a 8,600 lb mid profile to a 12,500 lb full profile on the performance, handling, MPG, and getting into and out of state and national parks?

Almost all the info I find out there is regarding a half ton truck. Everyone has a half ton and they wanna know if tow "XXX" 5th wheel. Well, my TV is 2022 Duramax Crew Cab, 4WD Silverado 3500 SRW. Which I believe can handle a 35 ft Montana, but my wife thinks we should try to stay as small as possible to aid in maneuverability, gas mileage, and getting into camp sites. And I don't disagree with her, but those smaller Mid Pro's like a Cougar 27SGS or a Jayco 27RL have much more cramped bedroom levels, and I just don't think they are built as well.

So how much difference does it really make? Do any of you have an experience towing both? We've talked about renting one of each, but dang is it expensive to rent a 5th wheel for a two week trip. Plus we really don't want to learn how to use a 5th wheel on a trip of that magnitude...but what can we learn from going out for a weekend? Anyway, I digress...I think you understand where I'm coming from.

Thanks much!!
 
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Old 10-10-2022, 08:30 AM   #2
jsb5717
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Welcome aboard! In my opinion the experience of towing a fifth wheel is basically the same regardless of size. Towing anything requires that you know your length and understand your turning points.

Moving from a bumper pull to a 5th wheel is a little more of a transition but not necessarily a big one. The relative stability of a 5th wheel makes that transition pretty easy...you just have to get used to a different pivot point for backing the rig.

In my mind, and experience, the biggest adjustment is in the feel of the tow vehicle. Moving from a 1/2 ton (medium duty platform) to a 3/4 or 1 ton (heavy duty platform) makes a big difference in stability and control and quite frankly...safety. You've got a truck that gives you quite a few options in the 5th wheel market. A mid profile will feel about the same as a high profile.

The real issue to pay attention to isn't the length, but the weight:
When thinking about the weight of the 5th wheel start only with the GVWR rating. 23% of that number will approximate your loaded pin weight. Add to the loaded pin weight the people, hitch, and any other gear you will load in your truck. That number is your total payload. Then look at the sticker inside the drivers door of your truck that tells you your max load capacity...that's your trucks payload (how much weight you can put ON your truck). Your total load (pin weight, people, hitch, etc.) should not exceed your trucks rated payload (load capacity).

FWIW we pull a 35' 5er with our 1 ton RAM.

Sorry for the long answer. I hope it helps.
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Old 10-10-2022, 08:31 AM   #3
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The lighter smaller trailer is going to get a little better fuel mileage. But I don't think the towing and handling is going to be a lot different. The primary factor about getting into local, state, COE, and national parks and forest service campgrounds and such is the length. The longer the RV is the more likely you will encounter problems. Commercial parks will rarely be a problem. I have been in some state parks where my 35' Monte just barely fit the largest sites and would not fit in many of the other sites. And those larger sites are the first to be claimed making busy parks even more of a problem. And access roads also required very careful driving to avoid damage by tree limbs.

If you want maximum access capability to anything but commercial parks I would try to stay under 35'. IMHO.
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Old 10-10-2022, 08:42 AM   #4
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The following is just from my seat of the pants experience ... others opinions will vary. A fiver pulls infinitely better than a travel trailer ... feels more solid and steady going down the road. A fiver turns more quickly than a travel trailer due to the hitch point farther forward on your truck. You're looking at 10 - 11 MPG. No more messing with an equalizer hitch, just back up to the pin box, let it down, hook up pigtail and safety cable, check hookup overall and go. You will be taller, so you'll have to take clearance issues to heart. It helps if you can still turn your head and upper torso while hooking up as you can see the relation from hitch to pin box way better than relying on your rear view mirror. Unless you get a front living room fiver, you'll enjoy WAY more storage space. You'll enjoy way more headroom and seemingly a much larger living space. You will have an extra set of stairs getting into the bedroom, but no real issue for most. As far as getting into campgrounds, everyone has different skill levels of towing ... I feel you get used to what you are pulling after a short time, but I grew up on a farm with pretty big stuff to start with.
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Old 10-10-2022, 08:42 AM   #5
wwjdwithca
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Originally Posted by jsb5717 View Post

In my mind, and experience, the biggest adjustment is in the feel of the tow vehicle. Moving from a 1/2 ton (medium duty platform) to a 3/4 or 1 ton (heavy duty platform) makes a big difference in stability and control and quite frankly...safety. You've got a truck that gives you quite a few options in the 5th wheel market. A mid profile will feel about the same as a high profile.


Sorry for the long answer. I hope it helps.
First off, thanks for taking the time and giving me an in-depth answer, much appreciated!

So what about fuel economy and getting your rig in and out of the site; do you think that's about the same as well?

Thanks again!
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Old 10-10-2022, 08:53 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by wwjdwithca View Post
First off, thanks for taking the time and giving me an in-depth answer, much appreciated!

So what about fuel economy and getting your rig in and out of the site; do you think that's about the same as well?

Thanks again!
I see that Bill took the approach of size of rig in different campgrounds. He's right. The smaller the rig, the easier it can be to find a site. We've experienced that a little, especially in some older State Parks. So how and where you you like to camp is part of your decision.

For us, we've never had a problem finding camping sites in any area we want to visit. Most campgrounds have websites that allow you to select by size of trailer or choose your own site with visibility of it's length. Many of our Oregon State Parks have a lot of smaller sites, but will also have larger sites so we've always managed. Getting in and out of sites is really more about each specific site, as well as your own skill level. Some are tighter than others and you just need to be prepared for that since you can't always know that until you get there.

For us, and how we like to camp, our 35' 5er gives us the room we want, easy towability, and decent access to many camp sites. We aren't boondockers. We enjoy State and County parks, as well as many private parks. We've always found sites and managed to navigate them. I've got a lot of years towing and backing so I don't worry about getting in and out of sites. That's something you'll need to judge for yourself for your own experience and ability. Even if you're new at it, there are ways to learn such as large empty parking lots and working with someone who's good at it.

As for mileage, with your truck I would expect you to average 11-12mpg towing...regardless of size.
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Old 10-10-2022, 09:18 AM   #7
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First if you think about fuel mileage then its going to be disappointing no matter what you tow. 9 to 14 MPG reported as for state parks and campgrounds 30 or 50 amp the later being more harder to get as they have less availability expecally in summer in the north. Smaller 5vers have 30 or 50 amp service. i live full time in mine so 50 amp is a must. 1 ton can pull just about anything so i would make a list and go with what you need in a 5ver and what you can live with out and that will make your decision before any thing else. as you mentioned you were worried about state parks and campground in the beginning.
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Old 10-10-2022, 10:32 AM   #8
wwjdwithca
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Thanks for all your help! This has been very helpful! I think we are going to focus on Full Profile rigs, and find the smallest one that meets all of our objectives instead of attempting to compare mid profile rigs as well. We'll see how my better half takes to that approach
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Old 10-10-2022, 10:38 AM   #9
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When a customer is new and apprehensive about towing, many dealers will take you out for a drive with one of their 5 th wheels and truck accompanied by an employee. Fuel mileage will hover around 10 mpg.
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Old 10-10-2022, 10:57 AM   #10
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Before we went full time we had an 18' pull behind, not a 5th wheel but a small trailer. I actually found the 5th wheel easier to pull and not a lot different when parking. Since, our 5th wheels have been 40' or longer and while we have always checked the campsites on line, looked at reviews and been careful of what campsite roads we took we really have had few issues and none we weren't able to negotiate.
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Old 10-10-2022, 11:28 AM   #11
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My model is 41' long. I towed it with a 2014 Chevy C3500 SRW and now tow with 2019 Chevy C3500 DRW. The 2014 handled the rig no problem. Summer 2018 the exhaust brake was great in the Arkansas mountains (basically my first time with modern exhaust brakes). The dually just feels better. I never noticed any difference in gas mileage.

Compared to towing my previous smaller RVs - the biggest issue we have while traveling is finding a place to stop for lunch. You can't just whip this thing off the interstate and into a Dairy Queen parking lot. DW sometimes does not understand the problem! And maybe I am overly cautious. It takes some pre-planning. Best place to eat on the road...any place located in front of a Walmart!
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Old 10-10-2022, 12:20 PM   #12
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We never had a camper or went camping before.
After a LOT of research we settled on the Montana. Then it was a matter of size and layout.
We figured out if you go much bigger than 36 feet, you begin to limit yourself on locations you can fit into.
There was an article where they compiled a list of national parks and their size limit. I can't find the link right now.
So, we sold the house, traded in the Prius for a F350 dually (didn't want a dually, but it drove smoother and quieter than a new F250. It also had all the bells and whistles. Then we drove 3 hours to Memphis and picked up our Montana.
BIG learning curve!!!
On our maiden voyage to Rapid City SD (1,500 miles), the DEF warning light came on. Freaked us out!!!
What the hell is DEF!!!!
Looked it up and figured it out.
Even today we stay on Interstate and US routes as much as possible. The big thing is HEIGHT.
Measure your height when hitched so you know.
We are 13'4". We went under this overpass at walking speed.
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Old 10-10-2022, 03:06 PM   #13
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Oooo. I don't know if I would have tried that underpass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for fitting in parks, I found a site that shows photos of each campsite. Obviously not every park is listed, but those that are I find helpful. i.e. CG website says site is 35 feet long. But look at photo, and it is obvious that it is longer especially if you see it open behind the pavement where you can overhang 4-5 feet. Here is the site: "https://www.campsitephotos.com/campground-information/Ponderosa"
Also, since I don't back up too well these days, it is nice to see the site if it may be on a curve where you can kind of back straight in instead of having to jack-knife in.
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Old 10-10-2022, 08:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryles View Post
We never had a camper or went camping before.
After a LOT of research we settled on the Montana. Then it was a matter of size and layout.
We figured out if you go much bigger than 36 feet, you begin to limit yourself on locations you can fit into.
There was an article where they compiled a list of national parks and their size limit. I can't find the link right now.
So, we sold the house, traded in the Prius for a F350 dually (didn't want a dually, but it drove smoother and quieter than a new F250. It also had all the bells and whistles. Then we drove 3 hours to Memphis and picked up our Montana.
BIG learning curve!!!
On our maiden voyage to Rapid City SD (1,500 miles), the DEF warning light came on. Freaked us out!!!
What the hell is DEF!!!!
Looked it up and figured it out.
Even today we stay on Interstate and US routes as much as possible. The big thing is HEIGHT.
Measure your height when hitched so you know.
We are 13'4". We went under this overpass at walking speed.
Good heavens Daryle - that must have been a pucker factor of 12 on a scale of only 1 to 10! Hey - at least you didn't have to air down your tires to scooch beneath there....
To the OP - Google Earth can be you friend as well when looking for sites large enough for the fiver you decide up. Even that can get iffy though if you wind up like us and prefer COE and state park sites. Recreation.gov will show the length of the sites for the government parks, but look long and hard at the approach to get to a site you pick out. I've had camp hosts tell me there was no way I could possible make it into a site we had reserved. They were wrong - easy peezy.... Learn your rig, learn your capabilities and stay in your comfort zone. You will do fine.
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Old 10-16-2022, 01:28 PM   #15
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We had the same TV and pulled a 35 ft Monty. Pulled great and met all the specs for towing legally. If you got the money for a Monty, then go for it.
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Old 10-16-2022, 02:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjdwithca View Post
Hello! ...

1) How much difference does it really make going from a 8,600 lb mid profile to a 12,500 lb full profile on the performance, handling, MPG, and getting into and out of state and national parks?

...

2) Well, my TV is 2022 Duramax Crew Cab, 4WD Silverado 3500 SRW. Which I believe can handle a 35 ft Montana, but my wife thinks we should try to stay as small as possible to aid in maneuverability, gas mileage, and getting into camp sites.

...

3) ... but those smaller Mid Pro's like a Cougar 27SGS or a Jayco 27RL have much more cramped bedroom levels, and I just don't think they are built as well.

4) So how much difference does it really make? ...
I did not read all the posts, so if something is duplicated here, just bear with me.

We've had 3 different 1 ton duallies, long bed Chevy Silverado's. We purchased the first 2 used, and third one brand new (our current truck in my signature). I share from my experiences:

We went from a 24 foot travel trailer, to a 31 foot travel trailer, to a 35 foot travel trailer, to our current Montana Fifth Wheel (41 feet). Granted, we did not move up fifth-wheel to fifth wheel, but the end result is our current Montana.

As far as the Duramax, diesel, 6.6 L, dually long bed towing beast ... my fuel mileage towing the last travel trailer (a bit lower profile) went from approximately 11-12 mpg (diesel) to 9.5 - 10 towing the high profile fifth wheel.

The Outback weighed in around 8000-9000 pounds when loaded fully. The truck had no problem pulling it. The Montana (dry) now weighs in around 11000, and although I've never weighed it, I'm estimating my total weight is around 14000.

Bottom line, the truck handled both admirably. As far as towing, I had an Equal-i-zer 4 point weight distribution hitch I used with the bumper pull trailer and I'm use a Demco Recon fifth wheel hitch now for my Montana. Both pull the trailers flawless. Never, ever, ever a scarry moment, truck being under powered, trouble in mountains, overheating, bad responses, or anything. It's a towing beast.

BUT! The trade off is the fuel consumption. Higher profile and heavier weight = more fuel to pull the same distance and roads than the lighter low profile trailer (if that be a fifth wheel or a bumper pull).

If you have a Duramax Diesel, 3500 .... you will have NO problems at all towing. You've got a sweet ride, and yours will handle any Montana fifth wheel with ease. But the fuel mileage will be vastly different when towing or not towing.

You can expect 10 mpg (especially since yours is a newer truck) no matter what you tow. (unless it's a tear drop!)
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Old 10-16-2022, 02:53 PM   #17
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Me again. Just went back and read a few of the other posts. As far as length... a 35 footer will have minimal problems fitting it, I think .... just about anywhere. Reservations and call ahead is your friend.

For what it's worth, we've been able to camp anywhere (so far) we've wanted. But not every park may have the pristine water front campsites to fit a 41 footer beast. But we've always been able to get into a park. We've been doing this for over 20 years. Now granted, some older state park along the Eastern Seaboard (especially North East) simply do not have sites to fit a 41 footer. But, we never let that stop us. We seems to always find a campground somewhere that will.
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Old 10-16-2022, 04:40 PM   #18
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Had a mid profile 30ft 5th wheel for 10 years. Towed fine and was easy to back into sites. Moved up to a Montana thatís 41.5ft long. Took a bit of a learning curve to figure out backing. There is a lot more trailer behind the wheels and more trailer swing. The theory behind towing and backing is the same though, regardless of length.

Towing with the right truck makes all the difference. Big difference between gas and diesel as far as mileage. Diesel will be more consistent mileage regardless of size of RV.

A smaller RV will get you access to more camping options, especially if itís a 30amp RV.
You mentioned you donít own a 5th wheel yet and have never towed one. What ever you get is what youíll learn about and adapt to. Starting out too small will give you more confidence in your abilities but youíll soon figure out you donít like the limited space. Starting out too big will make you feel overwhelmed and possibly steer you out of RVing.
I think a newbie would be content with something around 33 to 36ft.

Anyway, JMHO
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Old 10-16-2022, 05:22 PM   #19
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When we were ready to move up to a 5th Wheel, we looked at Mid-Profile. First one we looked at living space was OK, went up into the Front Bedroom, Salesman it talking to us with his head bent to the side because he couldn't stand up. He was shorter than either of us. Crossed them off the list and went Full Profile.
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Old 10-16-2022, 05:50 PM   #20
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I just thought of something you can consider between a high profile and a mid profile, longer and shorter trailer.... and that is ... propane usage to run the furnace. Of course, the longer they are, the more slide outs they have, and the taller they are, it will take more propane to maintain the same consistent temperature as a smaller trailer will.

Add to that, the Montana's and the Montana High Countries are suppose to be rated to zero degrees, that means those trailers have open heat ducts under the floor and in the underbelly to heat that space between the bottom of the trailer frame and the bottom side of the inside floor. There's a lot of heat that blows under the floor and in the underbelly and in the baggage areas that never reach the inside of the trailer.

Trailers that are not rated for such cold, usually just have their water lines running along the heat ducts, which really isn't enough when outside temps get cold enough.

We've used water in our Montana down to 10 (plus) degrees "F" and stayed unfrozen. But we also were burning through a 30 pound tank of propane about ever 36 hours too! When that happened, we finally decided to winterize.

Anyway, if you plan on cold weather camping or full timing and end up in freeze zone states, the propane usage for heat is something to consider, when considering the size of your upcoming camper.

Good luck.
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