Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-04-2021, 12:33 PM   #61
Byron B
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Georgetown
Posts: 302
M.O.C. #18751
According to Banks Power:

In a diesel engine, stroke length (2 or 4) and cylinder pressure are the main factors that increase torque. ... Their lean air-to-fuel ratio also helps diesel fuel go longer and add extra torque. Diesel fuel also has more energy per gallon than gasoline, which makes diesel fuel more efficient for combustion and torque.
 
Byron B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2021, 06:26 PM   #62
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by JABURKHOLDER View Post
Why the shouting ?

Anyway...
Torque in an internal combustion engine is produced through several factors...

Compression ratio
Calorific value (energy of the fuel)
Stroke length
Combustion speed
Turbo boost pressure

All of these are higher in a diesel, thus the greater torque value.

You can get the same torque out of a gasoline engine per liter as the diesels make. My little 2.7 puts out 148 pound feet per liter. Fords 6.7 puts out 156 T per litter Chevy’s 6.6 it’s 146 and the standard 6.7 Cummings it’s 131 their high output diesel puts out 160 per liter. So you can get the same power out of a gasoline engine if the engine is designed strong enough and you have enough boost. The boost in my Ecoboost goes up to 20 PSI.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2021, 09:49 PM   #63
JABURKHOLDER
Montana Master
 
JABURKHOLDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Cuyahoga Falls
Posts: 699
M.O.C. #18572
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh View Post
So you can get the same power out of a gasoline engine if the engine is designed strong enough and you have enough boost.
Lynwood
The key word...”if”
JABURKHOLDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 09:38 AM   #64
mhs4771
Montana Master
 
mhs4771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sebring
Posts: 3,657
M.O.C. #9969
Think you can get the same HP, but you'll be lacking in the Torque department.
__________________
Michelle & Ann
2018 Chevy 3500HD High Country DRW 4X4 Crew Cab w/Duramax/Allison, Formally 2010 Montana 2955RL, Now Loaded 2016 SOB, Mor/ryde IS, Disc Brakes & Pin Box, Comfort Ride Hitch, Sailun 17.5 Tires.
mhs4771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 11:15 AM   #65
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
My little 2.7 has more torque per liter than either the Chevy or the Cummings standard diesel per liter. The reason it does is because it’s a compacted graphite iron engine where the Chevy and the standard Cummings are cast iron block engines. CGI is much stronger than cast iron and will withstand much higher pressure. The 2.7 does have higher HP per liter because it like gasoline engines can turn more RPMs but that HP is what we are talking about.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 11:46 AM   #66
kowbra
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Battleford
Posts: 627
M.O.C. #26690
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh View Post
My little 2.7 has more torque per liter than either the Chevy or the Cummings standard diesel per liter. The reason it does is because it’s a compacted graphite iron engine where the Chevy and the standard Cummings are cast iron block engines. CGI is much stronger than cast iron and will withstand much higher pressure. The 2.7 does have higher HP per liter because it like gasoline engines can turn more RPMs but that HP is what we are talking about.
Lynwood
Again some misinformation; Cummins uses CGI blocks for the past 3 years.
And torque per liter is not the key measurement here - total torque and the torque curve is.
There is a reason the eco boost is not in the Ford heavy duty trucks; actually lots of reasons. Maybe someday Ford will figure out how to make an Eco boost work in their heavy duty trucks - but it's pretty telling that they've been making eco boost engines for over a decade and still don't. And the direction they are going means it will be far more likely to see an electric engine than eco boost.

Not sure why you keep beating the drum about an engine that doesn't even belong on a Montana forum discussion.


Brad
__________________
2021 Montana 3790RD, Legacy, Super Solar Flex
2020 RAM 3500 Limited, HO
kowbra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 12:40 PM   #67
Eagleback
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Full Timer In Naples, Florida
Posts: 1,049
M.O.C. #15731
Quote:
Originally Posted by kowbra View Post
Again some misinformation; Cummins uses CGI blocks for the past 3 years.
And torque per liter is not the key measurement here - total torque and the torque curve is.
There is a reason the eco boost is not in the Ford heavy duty trucks; actually lots of reasons. Maybe someday Ford will figure out how to make an Eco boost work in their heavy duty trucks - but it's pretty telling that they've been making eco boost engines for over a decade and still don't. And the direction they are going means it will be far more likely to see an electric engine than eco boost.

Not sure why you keep beating the drum about an engine that doesn't even belong on a Montana forum discussion.


Brad



I will agree. the turbo gassers will never make the same mileage as the diesels anyway and the overall cost will be a lot more in the long run in fuel and maintenance so this discussion is pretty much moot.
__________________
2017, 3500 Ram Big Horn, 4x4, Crew Cab, DRW, Aisin Transmission, 4:10. Curt Q20, 2014 Mountaineer 331 RLT, Sailun's on the rv and truck.
Eagleback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2021, 09:52 AM   #68
dfb
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Gardnerville
Posts: 1,250
M.O.C. #17163
Torque and horsepower ate the same at 5225 rpms..
dfb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2021, 10:06 AM   #69
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfb View Post
Torque and horsepower ate the same at 5225 rpms..
Exactly and that goes for any ICE. I couldn’t remember if it was 5225 or 5252 RPM.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2021, 04:33 PM   #70
kowbra
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Battleford
Posts: 627
M.O.C. #26690
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh View Post
Exactly and that goes for any ICE. I couldn’t remember if it was 5225 or 5252 RPM.
Lynwood
haha, I had to go look it up also and it is 5252 rpm - mechanic school for me was a looong time ago

But I'm not sure I understand how that matters to the conversation around HP vs Torque? So they are the same at that particular rpm, now what?

Brad
__________________
2021 Montana 3790RD, Legacy, Super Solar Flex
2020 RAM 3500 Limited, HO
kowbra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2021, 04:18 PM   #71
Bill Austin
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Dripping Springs
Posts: 38
M.O.C. #28613
There is a (I mean several) reason semi trucks have diesel engines.
__________________
Bill & Connie Austin - Dripping Springs, TX
Ordered: 3791RD Legacy FB Paint Sterling
Ordered: 2022 F350 Dually Diesel 8' Bed Platinum
Est Deliveries: Trailer August & Truck October 2021
Bill Austin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2021, 07:38 AM   #72
Delaine and Lindy
Montana Master
 
Delaine and Lindy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lobelville
Posts: 2,128
M.O.C. #6650
I'm pro-diesel, I firmly believe diesel is the way to go if you are towing heavy. I'm pro-GM, Chevy/GMC, very little difference, between these two. Have owned more Chevy's than GMC's. I have owned many dually's, more than the SRW, trucks.

Once you tow 20,000 lbs+ you will know the diesel is the way to go. The exhaust brake is a major plus. Pull the Colorado Rockies, you will see the difference Gas vs Diesel. We once owned a Freightliner sports chassis, with the Mercedes diesel, with the Allison transmission, towed a Chevy HHR behind the SOB 5th wheel, never an issue, passed many Gas burners. However one must decide how much you travel, Diesel is more expensive that gas.

Happy Trails.
Delaine and Lindy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2021, 09:29 AM   #73
DebNJim B
Montana Master
 
DebNJim B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Northville, NY
Posts: 807
M.O.C. #21158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delaine and Lindy View Post
I'm pro-diesel, I firmly believe diesel is the way to go if you are towing heavy. I'm pro-GM, Chevy/GMC, very little difference, between these two. Have owned more Chevy's than GMC's. I have owned many dually's, more than the SRW, trucks.

Once you tow 20,000 lbs+ you will know the diesel is the way to go. The exhaust brake is a major plus. Pull the Colorado Rockies, you will see the difference Gas vs Diesel. We once owned a Freightliner sports chassis, with the Mercedes diesel, with the Allison transmission, towed a Chevy HHR behind the SOB 5th wheel, never an issue, passed many Gas burners. However one must decide how much you travel, Diesel is more expensive that gas.

Happy Trails.
Have a neighbor that few years ago had a Ram 3500 dually with a hemi and a good sized p/u camper. One year they made a trip to the west coast and when he returned they were in a new Ram 3500 Cummins dually. He told me he got tired of hearing it scream at him.
__________________
Jim B
2017 Lariat F-350 FX4, CC, SB, 6.7 PSD 4WD
2018 MONTY 3731FL, at our private winter site in GA

DebNJim B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2021, 09:38 AM   #74
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by DebNJim B View Post
Have a neighbor that few years ago had a Ram 3500 dually with a hemi and a good sized p/u camper. One year they made a trip to the west coast and when he returned they were in a new Ram 3500 Cummins dually. He told me he got tired of hearing it scream at him.

That’s why I bought my first diesel. On My first trip out west I watched to see which truck got out of site the quickest. I came home a bought one.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2021, 09:51 AM   #75
paulinbaja
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chico
Posts: 269
M.O.C. #14041
Everything about diesel is so much more simple. Much easier to set the points and change the spark plugs.
Although the v10's seem to be good engines I don't like the way screme.
paulinbaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2021, 10:54 AM   #76
432bartman
Montana Master
 
432bartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: UPLAND
Posts: 1,250
M.O.C. #26190
Unless you really need a truck right now, I'd wait........the new and used market is going crazy right now, due to the computer chip shortage. I'm on several diesel forums and people are getting more money on their 1-2 year old trucks than what they first paid for them.
__________________
2019 Keystone Montana 3560RL, 2020 Chevy 2500 HD, Firestone airbags, Air Lift wireless compressor, Curt gooseneck, 20K Reese Goosebox, TST-507, USMC combat vet & retired LEO. Robert, Anika, Breanna, Dylan (daughter-in-law Stephanie). & our Great Pyrenees Layla
432bartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2021, 04:17 PM   #77
Bad Moon
Montana Fan
 
Bad Moon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Medford
Posts: 498
M.O.C. #18546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delaine and Lindy View Post
I'm pro-diesel, I firmly believe diesel is the way to go if you are towing heavy. I'm pro-GM, Chevy/GMC, very little difference, between these two. Have owned more Chevy's than GMC's. I have owned many dually's, more than the SRW, trucks.

Once you tow 20,000 lbs+ you will know the diesel is the way to go. The exhaust brake is a major plus. Pull the Colorado Rockies, you will see the difference Gas vs Diesel. We once owned a Freightliner sports chassis, with the Mercedes diesel, with the Allison transmission, towed a Chevy HHR behind the SOB 5th wheel, never an issue, passed many Gas burners. However one must decide how much you travel, Diesel is more expensive that gas.

Happy Trails.
Right now diesel is a little cheaper, at least here out west.
Bad Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2021, 03:49 PM   #78
Delaine and Lindy
Montana Master
 
Delaine and Lindy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lobelville
Posts: 2,128
M.O.C. #6650
Tork/HP

I would always go with tork. Whether a GM,Ford or Dodge. Just different covers. Todays, diesels are awesome. Good Luck with your choice.

Happy Trails.
Delaine and Lindy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.