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11-13-2004, 10:26 AM
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#1
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Established Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: St Louis Metro
Posts: 45
M.O.C. #2180
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3575 "Empty" Weight Ticket
Not that anyone cares...but you other 3575 owners may...this is a shot of my trailer's scale ticket 30 minutes after I picked it up the day I bought it.
http://client.webshots.com/photo/215...16310088OEnrWR
Now, can anyone tell me what my pin weight is based on these numbers or do I need to get a "Truck Only" weight?
Thanks...
Chip
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11-13-2004, 12:03 PM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 5,316
M.O.C. #15
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3575Owner,
I think you now need to get the truck weighed by itself. When you get that weight (front axle and rear axle) take the rear axle weight and subtract it from the 5180 and you should have the pin weight.
At least that is the way I understand it. By the way try to weigh the pick-up with a full tank of fuel and sort of what you'd expect to have in it when towing. That will give you a more realistic picture.
Now someone who really knows what they're talking about can enlighten us both. :-)
HamRad
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11-13-2004, 12:59 PM
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#3
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 173
M.O.C. #2230
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That's strange I came to the forum tonight to post a weight question and saw this post. I was going to get a verification on how to weigh my Montana and tow truck to determine total weight and pin weight.
So I have to weight the two axles of the tow truck alone, hook up 5th wheel and then weight the axles of the 5th wheel on one weight platform and the tow truck axles again on 2 platforms? Now I have the weight of the trailer and truck by adding all three weights. Now I should subtract the rear axle weight of the first tow truck weighting from the second rear axle tow truck weight with the 5th wheel hooked up to get my pin weight. Right?
I guess I could also weight the 5th wheel axles on 2 platforms and then I would have the weight of all four axles. Be good to know.
I think I can use the Fla DOT truck scales to weigh. A station is located near me on route 27/19. I'll find out tomorrow.
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11-13-2004, 01:12 PM
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#4
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Livingston
Posts: 474
M.O.C. #2056
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Mary Kay and Dennis are correct in figuring out the weights. If you are every traveling in Oregon, the state leaves their scales on even when they are closed for business. This allows you to check your truck weight without your 5W and later with it. It is a nice bonus and keeps you current with your weights and it is free. The factory is required to have the actual weight posted in the 5W--ours was on the inside of a cupboard door. Amazingly, ours had 1150 pounds LESS carrying capacity that the sale brochure stated it had (3500 lbs). This forced us to shed over a ton of cargo when we moved from our old rig into the 3575 which is larger!
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11-13-2004, 01:37 PM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Rapid City
Posts: 739
M.O.C. #77
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The scales I use can weigh 3 axles. I weighed the F-250 with full fuel, me, and wife. Then I weighed again with the Monty, full fuel, me, and wife. The difference in the rear (drive) axle weights gave me the pin weight.
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11-13-2004, 01:47 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,740
M.O.C. #1757
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Thanks for the great post. Happyrving....
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11-13-2004, 01:51 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Flemington
Posts: 1,373
M.O.C. #242
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I ran my truck and trailer over a scale at a truckstop and weighed 20,900 combined, front axle 4680, rear axle 7000, trailer axles 9220. This was packed for a weekend trip on our way out.
After coming home I weighed just the truck loaded similar and adding for the missing passengers and got front axle 4530, rear axle 4120.
This tells me that my pin weight is 3030 (7000-4120)+(4680-4530). My trailer weighs 12,320, thats only 280 lbs less than max. This kinda annoys me since I don't have gel coat, a w/d or a generator. Most of my inside storage is lightly loaded and my compartments are filled with folding chairs and other gear that is relativelt lightweight.
I can't see how I could possibly fulltime in this rig without being seriously overweight. I think the trailer gvw should be 15,000 or so compared to 12,600. Brochure says I should have 2930 carrying capacity but I know the sticker says less and I don't feel that the sticker is accurate either.
John
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11-13-2004, 02:03 PM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leona
Posts: 6,382
M.O.C. #2059
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All this weight figuring is heavy on my head. That may be where I have the greatest danger of being overloaded.
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11-13-2004, 03:54 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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I agree with John that to find pinweight you need the weight of the *entire* truck with and without trailer attached. That's because of the weight shift between front and rear axles when the pinweight is onboard. Otherwise you get a false reading. It's still a good idea to have individual axle weights just to make sure you're not over GAWR.
Floridanomads, there's a lot of detail in the above posts and I've already forgotten what all was said. So forgive if I just repeat what others have already said.
You want the weight on each axle of the tow vehicle and the trailer. For the tow vehicle you want each axle with and without trailer attached. That's to make sure you're not over the axle ratings (truck and trailer).
You can add axle weights for the truck with trailer attached to make sure you're not over the truck's GVWR.
You can add all axles together to make sure you're not over the truck's GCWR.
You can subtract total truck without trailer from truck with trailer to get pinweight.
You can add pinweight to trailer axles to get total trailer weight to make sure you're not over the trailer's GVWR.
Ideally, it would be good to get weight on each wheel (or wheels in case of a dually). You then can make sure you're not over the tire's capacity on any one wheel. I'm afraid I've never done this part.
3575owner, if you weigh the truck separately, try to have the conditions as identical as you can to the combined weighing, such as amount of fuel, passengers, gear, etc. Otherwise you will just be close on your pinweight, not exact. Fuel and passenger differences can make a substational difference.
Your pinweight should be between 20 and 25 percent of the total trailer weight.
Anyone feel free to jump in and correct any errors. And please forgive if I just repeated.
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11-13-2004, 04:20 PM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Macomb Twp
Posts: 1,451
M.O.C. #2221
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The reason for the discrepancy between the brochures and actual weights is the weights listed in the brochures are estimated on totally empty trailers without any options. Air conditioning, television, microwave and furniture from what I understand are not included.
We've been through a lot of the trailer factories and have never seen a scale yet .
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11-13-2004, 04:44 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Also, there is no battery and no propane bottles onboard at that time. Those are added by the dealer.
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11-14-2004, 01:34 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Flemington
Posts: 1,373
M.O.C. #242
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The propane is taken into account on the sticker in the kitchen cabinet as is fresh water. Keystone uses portable scales in the factory to weigh each unit. It is a requirement that the sticker in the coach be accurate. The brochure is a different story.
John
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11-14-2004, 09:40 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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John, on ours the sticker shows UVW, then subtracts for water and propane to calculate CCC carrying weight. But the UVW is without water and propane. Is yours different? Ours is a 2003 model so maybe the regulations changed?
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11-14-2004, 10:01 AM
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#14
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Established Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Groveland
Posts: 28
M.O.C. #2287
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I can't find the sticker at all! Is it possible the dealer removed it? Was it left out at the factory? I thought I looked in every nook and cranny.
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11-14-2004, 10:30 AM
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#15
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 470
M.O.C. #447
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Ours was in a bottom cupboard in the kitchen. I was looking in the top cupboards for it and when packing the 5er came across it. It's in a very difficult place to read.
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11-14-2004, 02:09 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Flemington
Posts: 1,373
M.O.C. #242
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Steve, here's my sticker:
It shows trailer gross, UVW, water, propane and CCC.
John
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11-14-2004, 04:33 PM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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John, the sticker on ours is similar to yours, just different numbers. I guess I was answering a question that maybe wasn't asked. What I was trying to say is that the UVW shown on the sticker should not be assumed to be the actual weight of the trailer before loading it up with water and gear. It does not include those things added by the dealer, which includes battery and propane bottles. That's a couple of hundred pounds right there. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
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11-15-2004, 01:58 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Flemington
Posts: 1,373
M.O.C. #242
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Steve, I'm not sure what all is included in the UVW. If You think about the definition is should include the battery and other things that should be in the trailer when delivered but probably aren't.
My other complaint is advertised vs. actual weights. My trailer advertises 2930lbs CCC with there actually only being 1960. I told Keystone that I felt my chassis should be in the 14,000 range not 12,600. What if I got gelcoat and a w/d from the factory? I would loose another 800 lbs or so. I would have to fill some compartments with helium.
John
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11-15-2004, 02:34 AM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Aurora
Posts: 635
M.O.C. #1475
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rehorner--we have the same problem as you. That sticker is not to be found anywhere and we have looked in every imaginable spot (including the kitchen cabinets!). But we appreciate all the words about weight and will do our weighing and figuring. But like Stiles--this is hard on our head.
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11-15-2004, 04:37 AM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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John, I have a similar situation. Mine is advertised as having 3940 CCC but the sticker says 2980. I figured the difference is the weight of the options, like the hi-gloss and other things.
Our dealer told me the trailers are delivered without battery and without propane bottles. A delivery guy told me he got a ticket for not having a battery to power the emergency brake so now has to carry his own battery.
So I'd bet the numbers in the brochure are for a basic unit with all standard items but without options. Our dealer also told me the UVW on the sticker is the actual shipping weight as it leaves the factory. All this is what the dealer says so I don't know how accurate it is. Brochure UVW on ours is 10360. The sticker UVW is 10760.
If you don't carry a full load of fresh water you can add the difference to the available CCC. I'd like to see a unit weighed as it arrives at the dealer and see how that compares to the sticker.
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