dualie or not

[Bill Frisbee]

Don, you are right on the mark. I have made the same argument (and received the same response) with regard to the class of driver's license required in Ontario if you are towing any trailer (including RVs) that have a GVWR in excess of 10,000 lbs. Dealers and other RV owners who convince some old guy who has never driven anything bigger than his 4-door Buick sedan that he needs no special training or credentials to head down the highway to Florida with 23,000 lbs of overloaded truck and trailer under his butt are being totally irresponsible. People can (and do) rationalize anything.

Bill

[Wrenchtraveller]

Dave, I am talking about my truck's GVWR. It is 11200 and with my 2600 pounds of pin weight my truck weighs 11080. I have 120 pounds of wiggle room
My combined weight is 20800 so I am fine there too. I worked with a full timer last year that put his Fiver on a scale and it weighed 18000 pounds. At least he had a duallie .
I don't mean to suggest that going over your truck's GVWR by a few hundred pounds is really dangerous but when you start going over by 1500 pounds, you are pushing the envelope. I am sure we have over loaded duallies on this forum, but the weight safety factor on a duallie is HUGE.

I am no tire expert, but I do believe an overloaded tire is at a higher risk of blowout. Perhaps the tire experts can refute this?

[Dave e Victoria]

Don, I see where you are coming from. Also, I agree that tire rating is the most important of all the specs. We do have plenty of tire margin now on the Dually but somethings don't change like CGWR for instance. The dually is heavier and there is less left over for the trailer. This is one of the reasons we didn't go witth a TOP KICK when we traded. The empty truck weighed so much more that even with the 26000 pound CGWR we would still have been out of spec limits. Having said that, I think the CGWR on the Top Kick/Kodiak trucks is set by polotics rather than design. It keeps them out of the mandatory CDL range for work trucks.
Dave

[richfaa]

As I have said...."We have the CC,LB Dually.. IMO.. It is a pain in the butt in parking and driving in traffic and as a daily driver as we are using it now wintering in Az. I did not want the dually. My ideal truck would be the F-350 SB, Regular cab(maybe super cab), SWD..it did not work out that way. We purchased what best served our "towing" needs. Our truck has the 12,600lb GVWR and the 4:30 Diff..It can handle any Montana( and more) and be withing ALL spec's..no fudging..It is of course a personal choice..but everything is a compromise when Rv'ing.We just decided, with help from this forum and other sources to stay within all spec's ..like it or not. We are considering a new truck and I told Helen that I am not sure I want another dually..she replied..go over why we got one in the first place..It will be a dually." It can be said that it is a personal choice to run the speed limit, stop at a stop sign or traffic signal..what ever we feel comfortable with.Will never have a problem till something bad happens. IMO the a biggest negative of this forum is the general inability to give a honest answer to a person seeking information Instead of attempting to impose or justify what we do or what we have on the person.

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

IMO the a biggest negative of this forum is the general inability to give a honest answer to a person seeking information Instead of attempting to impose or justify what we do or what we have on the person.

Hear, hear!

[Delaine and Lindy]

Great post by richfaa and Dave. We as they say have been there and done that. We have traded TV's three time since 2005 started with a 2500HD, 3500 1 ton dually and now have a Chevy Kodiak 4500. All have been the Duramax/Allison and they were awesome Trucks. As you know we have a Cambridge and it is heavy. But we have gotten rid of the things that was nice to have but not nessary. The Chevy Kodiak weights 10,900 lbs load and ready to go. We carry a 148 gals of diesel fuel. We had a total weight of 27,620 (HEAVY). However the 4500 handles the load with no problem and we can tow without the use of the Cambridge brakes (Don't tow without all brakes working properly). We added Dish Brakes to our Cambridge and was the best Mod we have made. Now the Cambridge will stop the TV without using the TV brakes. By taking out the things we don't use and droping the extra fuel we are under all weights. We have found that we were hauling things around that we just didn't use. The 4500 is a awesome TV and the ride is much better than the 1 ton dually, and the 4500 will turn inside the 1 tons turning radius. Dave is correct GM keep the 4500 at 26,000 lbs because of the CDL Class A lic requirement. I carry a CDL Class A lic. But with the 1 ton dually when loaded as before our weight was 25,600. Its all choices. Good Luck...GBY...

[Delaine and Lindy]

Dave I feel your pain (3800+ pin wieght) but if you tow a Cambridge you will have to have as a minimum a 1 ton dually. And I believe the Big Sky will require a 1 ton dually. Thats just my opinion. Remember its just Choices..... GBY...

Dave's weights mirror our weights.............

[texdeano]

You don't have to have a duelly but they feel so much better and to me that makes them worth it.

[bsmeaton]

Just a note on those new Big Sky's - the old 16K hitch is not going to cut it either based on the web specifications.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

I'm not looking for no shouting match but there are a couple individuals that need to check their facts before blowing off about full timers. As a FULL TIMER I carry a whole lot less excess baggage than many many of the part timers and even some long timers I have met. This includes some of the MOC members I have met at some of the rallies. I constantly here folks complaining about not enough storage in their trailer. I have been full timing for nearly 3 1/2 years and I don't remember ever not having enough space in my 2955RL. In fact, we even had a couple empty cabinets. With the new 3485 all the cabinets above the recliners are empty. 3 of the 7 over the Sofa/Dinette are empty. The basement has enough space left over that I could load 3 large tubs with room to spare. And YES, I am very careful about adding 40 pounds without removing 50 pounds. AND I also know many full timers that don't travel nearly as heavy as the part timers and or long timers. So let's not be coming down on us full timers for being overloaded as we are very careful about our total package.

Also the stability, Dually vs SRW, issue is only existent in your mind. I have driven both in all kinds of wind conditions from head winds, tail winds, cross winds and wind gusts and felt no difference in either dually or SRW. A heavy cross wind will even move an 18 wheeler. Lets not discuss what happens when our, in comparison, light weight 5th wheel or travel trailer catches those winds. So I therefore find it very hard to believe any 5er/TT driver who claims he has never felt a cross wind pushing his rig side to side. To test this theory I would suggest that you come to St Petersburg Florida and drive your rig across the Sunshine Skyway Bridge on a windy day. The Skyway at it's highest point is 192 feet above the water and rarely will you cross it on a calm day. When you get to the other side your theory about dually stability will be left behind.

As far as the perceived safety issue with rear tire blow outs/flats. From years in the tire business I have found that most all dually drivers have no idea that their inside dual is flat until, from heat build up, the flat tire totally disinigrates and quite often it will also take out the other tire as well. Those pieces of rubber we all see laying on the Interstates is NOT a recap coming apart but rather a tire that disintegrated and often that tire was a dually.

OK I'm getting off my soap box, for now.

[Garin1]

Good post Glenn. Me thinks this discussion must stop

[richfaa]

We are not full timers like a lot of others but long timers. There is not much difference other than full timers may have everything they own on board and spend a lot more time in the RV. We have the 3400 and we have a lot of space not used. This being our first attempt at long timing we find that have way more stuff on board that we need and we figure we can lighten this thing by 500lbs min, i am sure a lot more, and we will have way more space not used next year. I am of course no expert on anything..In fact I find that I know less and less about more and more,,but.. my rear Duallys measure 19 inches(more or less) across the tire and wheel which means I have 38 inches of tire on the ground..whereas the single front tire and wheel measures 8 inches across that being 16 inches of tire on the ground if it were on the rear of the truck.To the uninformed it might appear that the more tire area in contact with the surface (road) would add some stability.As far as being blown off a bridge or a road by a high wind..If an 18 wheeler is going over so is everyone. We have been across the Mackinaw bridge in our dually when it was closed to Rv's 18 wheelers and vehicles with Large surface areas. Cars trucks, swd, dwd everyone got blown around. And I learned something new today..I always thought that those alligators laying on the road were mostly re caps as most 18 wheelers do use re caps at least on the rear..even school busses, at least in Ohio, are permitted to use re caps on the rear. It is good to learn new things...

[kmh3212]

Rosyriz, I suggest a dually for a 38ft Montana for two reasons. The outer wheel of dual rear wheels are like the wide wheel base of a race car to help the it turn better.
The other reason is tire carrying capacity. The tongue weight on my loaded but dry 3670 RL is over 2780 lbs. The rear axle weight of my truck is a little over 6300 lbs loaded with the fifth wheel. That would be 3150 lbs per tire minus the 250 lbs difference in total truck weight per tire. That makes it 2900 lbs on my X Michelin LT load range E tire that are rated for 3042 lbs each on a single rear wheel. My tires would be loaded to just 142 lbs less than than the maximum weight rating dry. Dual rear wheels the tires are rated for 2770 lbs each times 4 tires equals 11,080 lbs. This is much more than the 7460 Gross Axle Weight Rating rear of the truck. Now add me my wife my dog and a full tank of fuel, firewood etc. Now I can put water in the trailer tank and so on. I would more than likely overload the rear truck tires on a SRW with E rated tires.
Load your trailer and weigh it. Then weigh the truck empty and loaded with the fifth wheel. Take a look at the tires on the trucks you are looking at or the truck you have now.
Now go buy a Freightliner take it to the supermarket and find a place to park!
Now my story. I had noticed a little looseness in the rear end towing my fully loaded Montana for about the last half hour towing. I pulled over in the next town found a flat on an inside rear and changed tires.

[Wrenchtraveller]

KMH3212, great post and yet another example of the need for a duallie with a 38 ft Fiver. I have never owned a duallie so I can 't comment on personal experience but having owned slide in campers and taking part on those forums , I have heard over and over again how a duallie improves the stability of a slide in camper. I believe these people.

[SKOOBDO]

Yes, and 4x4 too if you don't want to get stuck in wet grass. Ask me how I know....but I got out with a turn of a knob.

[Amps]

"dually or not" that was also a question I wanted an answer to last year when looking for a new TV.
I read this forum, listened to people and found far too many different points of view. So here is how I made up my mind on what to buy.

FIRST: I like the look of the dually.
SECOND: I decided I wanted one so I bought one.

Was it an overkill well honestly I don't care I got the TV I wanted and love it.

What must be part of the decision process is research, listen, and KNOW your weight requirements.

[Garin1]

And snow, I almost slid off a mountain in Maine with my last tv. Now I have 4X4.

[rosyriz]

Thanks for everyone's help. I will let you know what we end up buying. In my opinion, from all the postings, I definately think it is up to the individual needs on what to buy. I'm leaning towards a dualie, my husband wants a single. Let's see who wins Rosyriz

[richfaa]

A comment on 4 wheel drive..We did not get it.. My rational was that we had never had a need for it in over 20 years of towing. We did not drive the truck in the winter or bad weather..Reevaluation...After being in the SW and West we understand that there is more off road than on road..Since we have been in Az there have been several times we needed 4 wheel drive and on 2 occasions we could drive no further. Now a LB,CC dually is NOT exactly a off road vehicle and in a couple of occasions I would not have attempted the drive 4 wheel or not. Our next truck, should we get one..will be 4 wheel drive... Ohh... One of my excuses for NOT having 4 wheel drive..Well I have road service..I will call them and they can drag me out... Right.. So we are 14 miles up a desert Road(and I use the word road loosely) Rock hunting, The road has no name , is not on any map and is NOT wide enough to turn a Dually around. The 4X4's drive off into the desert and turn around..I drive 4 or 5 miles to find a place wide enough to tun this beasty around. My call to Allstate would have been.. I am somewhere out in the desert North of Globe,Az on a trail that ranchers use to round up their cattle.. Come drag me out...Wonder how long we would be there???

[bsmeaton]

Rich - Been there, done that! Even with 4WD. Took 2 pickups, comealongs, and a 10K warn winch to get it out of there a week later after the snow melted a little. Surprised it hadn't been vandalized.

Jacques - I like your reasoning best

Rosyriz - happy shopping! From the temperature of this thread you may just want to keep your decision a secret . You'll never make the right decision.