Keystone, you just can't beat 'em! - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

sreigle · 06-02-2005, 11:56 AM

Sunshine, keep in mind that Keystone does not normally accept or recommend all problems be brought to the factory. The reason ours was scheduled here (Goshen) is because they prefer to work on that frame problem themselves rather than farm it out, if possible. Also, Lippert actually did the frame work. Keystone did the shackles and looked for other problems. So they may tell you to take it to a dealer unless there's something they want to take care of themselves. With 20,000 Montanas out there I can sure understand why they have to take that approach.

Padre, the situation you describe does not sound like the Keystone I know. But I think there may be another explanation. We were at the service center for more than a week so I had ample opportunity to talk with the service guys. I mentioned near the end of our time here how I appreciated their work and their approach to looking for additional problems. Besides telling me they do that on all rigs that come in they also said they did not used to do that. They said the service dept was getting a bad reputation and Keystone wanted to change that. So, they replaced the prior service manager with a new one, the current one. I wonder if your calls took place prior to that change? I don't know the timing of your calls nor the timing of the managerial change.

Also, Padre, you did not offend so much as raise some concerns. It was not your post that necessarily caused the concerns. Rather, it was the proverbial haystack where the "final straw" toppled the stack. Yours was just perhaps the final straw. The concern I'm referring to is the "Legend" myth. There have been a couple of situations that make me think perhaps that forumco-assigned moniker to the left of my name (simply because of number of posts) is leading some folks to think I am something I am not, is causing some newer members to shy away from disagreeing with my comments, and even causing a bit of resentment from long time members who rightfully deserve those accolades far more than I simply because they are more knowledgeable, more experienced, more talented, and/or more skilled than I. I simply excel in number of posts. I think "motormouth" would be a more appropriate "monikor."

As Carol said also, I value your friendship and in no way hold any ill feelings. You did and should express your opinions and feel you can do it freely. I appreciate you did not let that legend label stop that. But you still can buy me something to drink when we someday meet!

edited - I wanted to add something about any perception of me getting special favors from Keystone. Last Fall, after the Rally, Keystone arranged for AlKo to replace our damaged axles at no cost to us. However, AlKo did not bother to align the axles. I asked Keystone to check alignment. They did and sent me to a shop in Elkhart to have the axles aligned. Not at Keystone cost. They told me this would be on us. So, WE paid the $150 to have the axles aligned. Also, you may have read where some folks were given four new tires with the new axles. But not us. We still left with five tires worn on the inside edges. Such is life, I guess. I was still pleased they took care of the axles.

CountryGuy · 06-02-2005, 12:42 PM

David,

Dialog is good, it is how we all learn, share, laugh, cry a little sometimes, moan, groan and giggle when all is well! That IS what makes MOC so unusual and special on the internet!!!

I note your response concerning the phone dialog, don't know what to say, but, do note it, with a shaking of the old noggin!

Dear Motormouth Reigle, err, Steve,

, We hope you will not stop posting till some of the rest of us catch up to you??? Motormouth Carol would miss ya!

Besides, I believe that most here at MOC recognize what a good person you are, how you care for others, and encourage all of us to have our say, openly and honestly, without angst or grief.

I have said this a couple of times before, in regards to the service center, and will say it again, Al and I hope that NONE of you EVER needs to go there. We hope that your units are carefree and wonderful. We hope that you have smooth roads, and no leaks, no cracks in the frames, no bent axles, no problems!!!! However, if you are one of the few that do have some really serious situations, going to Goshen and the repair facility is like getting a hug from your favorite aunt, reassuring and comforting!

Carol

richfaa · 06-02-2005, 01:07 PM

If there is anyone in the forum that is or was in "the business" will understand that the Dealer, any dealer, the one you purchased it from or not does not like warranty work.There is no money in warranty work. The dealers make the money on flat rate repair and maint work. In many cases the manufacturer, and I do NOT know what keystone does, pay a flat rate for warranty work that is less that the dealers flat rate. It is simple if the dealers flate rate is 70,00 per hour and the company pays 50.00 per hour for warranty work, which does the dealer prefer. That is why the dealer you purchased it from will do your warranty work, He sees you as a repeat customer.If you bought it a 1000 miles away, he sees you as a money loser. The issue is that 95% of the problems we see should have NEVER come out of the factory. Warranty work is a loser for the company, for the dealer and the consumer. I think keystone has finally recognized that and is STARTING to address the problems.Montana has been # 1 for several years..they want to stay that way. Hang in there AND let Montana know what the problems are...I had a little sign that sat on my desk..It said...If you don't tell me you have a problem, how can I know you have one..

sreigle · 06-02-2005, 01:24 PM

Good post, Rich. That brings up something else I found out talking with the folks at the service center but forgot to mention.

1. We all saw where a bunch of druggies were rooted out of one of the Keystone plants (not a Montana plant I don't think). I was told all Keystone plant employees were tested.

2. Not long ago Montanas and Mountaineers were built in the same plant, but on different days. Now, the Mountaineer has its own plant and the Montana is built in its own plant. So, the same number of Montanas can be built in a week but at a slower rate. I also was told there are TWO Montana plants but I'm not sure if that is two assembly lines or maybe slides are put together in one and transported to the other or something on that order. Don't know for sure.

3. This guy also told me they slowed the production line down from 35 units per day to 20 per day. That may be because of having 5 days to do what they used to do in 3 days per week?

I guess time will tell if this eliminated the sloppiness we were hearing about for awhile. It does sound like Keystone is listening and trying to fix this problem.

padredw · 06-02-2005, 01:40 PM

Once again, thanks to all but especially to Steve and Carol who each and both add so much to this valuable forum. I do hope that the good feeling we have is communicated, and I believe that it is.

To Steve I would want to say that I do understand the sensitivity out of which you responded, but that my brief 'friendly' question did not intend any such implications. As my longer post should have indicated, it was not only Steve, but many others who have been received very differenty than we were. That was three years ago during the first year of our ownership. I need not go over all that again. My point here is that it was not a comparison of our experience with any one person, but with that of many who have posted here.

Remember, our experience (for good or ill) was over and done before we even knew about this forum. If I had never joined this forum I would have assumed that no owner would have been allowed to bring a unit back to the factory, even for a factory defect (or as the Lexington, Kentucky shop foreman told us, a defect that should ONLY be performed at the factory.)

I feel better. I hope everyone does. And maybe this has done some good overall. Based on my experience, I do not regret saying that for all to be treated as Steve and many others have been would be "a consumation devoutly to be wished."

Wordsmith · 06-02-2005, 02:02 PM

Nice to know that things went so well at Goshen, Steve and Vicki! Hopefully, this will keep the old 3295RK running smoothly for some years to come.

richfaa · 06-02-2005, 02:29 PM

Steve , the slowing down of the production line is significant.To me that means that Keystone/ Montana are addressing quality control issues.As a old quality control guy that is exactly what I would have recommended they do.Slow down the line and observe what and how things are done and make recommendations as to how they can be done better. I wish we could get to the plant for the tour sooner.I would love to see what is going on there. All the signs that Montana is on top of the issue are present

sreigle · 06-02-2005, 02:46 PM

Padre, thanks for the understanding. This "legend" thing has been a big concern to me for quite some time. You just happened along and stepped in front of the speeding bullet. I hope I did not offend you in any way with my response. I'm seriously hoping when I eventually reach the next digit it will overflow the counter and start over again at "1". That would get me a new category!

bob n pam · 06-02-2005, 03:24 PM

Steve and Vicki, we are so glad to hear that everything went well at the factory. You have been on my mind and I'm glad to know you're on the road again. Who cares if you are a "legend". Vicki has to live with you, not us!! Ha. Ha. Hope to see you in Texas if not before.

padredw · 06-02-2005, 05:39 PM

Steve, I have felt a special interest and, yes, even fondness for the two of you since I first discovered your "postcards" even before I joined the Montana Forum. I certainly knew nothing of the "legend" business but greatly appreciated yours and Vicki's sharing of your first days of full time living in the Montana.

Now that I have joined the forum, I have found your contribution to be extremely valueable, not only in a technical way but even more in the way in which your personal warmth sets a tone that is the very essense of this forum. Please do not let that whole "legend thing" prevent you from continuing to share.

jrgwdenner · 06-03-2005, 02:03 AM

We can testify that Steve isn't a legend, just a regular, nice guy...and a bit of a motormouth. So what happens when four motormouths from the forum meet.....two hours of nonstop talking! Our recent visit with Steve and Vicki was delightful and at that time Steve expressed concern that folks on the forum would think he was getting special treatment. Why was he concerned? Because he's just nice enough to be worried about that type of thing. Let's give Keystone the credit they deserve, especially with Steve's explanation concerning the new manager, etc. Sounds like their service will be nothing but better in the future.

MIMF2 · 06-03-2005, 03:04 AM

padredw,

Amen brother, Amen!!

Parrothead · 06-03-2005, 11:43 AM

Steve,
You can't quit posting. We love the Legend. If your ears were burning this past weekend, it is because you were quoted several times during our Mt. Shasta fabulous weekend.

richfaa · 06-04-2005, 04:37 AM

Enough with this legend and special treatment thing.. go back to the "legend: post..it was a J.O.K.E it was said in fun.Thats it. As for the special treatment thing. I do not know this Steve Sreigle except for here on this forum. Don't know who he is, what his back round is, if he left school in the 7th grade or has a PHD. Never met him and probably never will.However from his post on the forum and a couple between he and I. We read him as a guy who knows how to get things done. Don't remember who to credit this quote to, maybe someone out there knows. (Another sign on my desk.)
" If you want something bad enough, you will find a way to make it happen". Steve finds ways to make things happen, and they happen. Now if one person can make something happen and I can't I do not see that as special treatment.I see that as I need to work harder , do more homework, think deeper. Talk to the right people in the right manner..and..things will happen.

So, Steve, don't let anything bother you..keep on doing what you do best..and..maybe some day we will meet. I sense a great conversation if we do..Now I AM NOT a motor Mouth but have been accused of being verbose.

MIMF · 06-04-2005, 11:17 AM

Rich, trust me when I say this. You will never meet a nicer, more down-to-earth couple as the Reigles!

ols1932 · 06-04-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by sreigle

There are some more things but the point I want to make is not only did they take care of everything on my list they can legally handle but they went looking for other things needing repair. When I asked they told me this is their standard procedure on every rig that comes into the shop, if the owner has the time for them to do those things.

All of this just reaffirms my impressions that Keystone really does stand behind the product. Every single person we worked with during this time was not only very professional, very knowledgeable, but were very nice people. I am very, very pleased with these folks.

Steve, this is exactly the feelings I have. Keystone went out of their way to fix us up and our rig was four years out of warranty. I've dealt with other manufacturers but never ever did I get such personal work done--at no cost to me.

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