First of many questions about "new" truck

[Longwell]

I have been gathering specifications for our truck and have run across some figures I can't "figure" out. I found the following:

"GVWR is the weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer as the maximum weight (including vehicle, cargo, liquids, passengers, etc.) that the components of the chassis are designed to support." Wouldn't this include the tongue weight of the trailer?
The GVWR of our truck is 11,400 lbs.

"GCWR is the maximum allowable total loaded weight rating of the motor vehicle and any trailer it is towing." Should I add the GCWR of the truck and the GCWR of the trailer?
The GCWR of our truck is 15,881 lbs.

"GCWR minus GVWR represents the allowable weight for the towed vehicle (my emphasis)." How does this work? Do they mean the tongue weight (I hope)?
15,881 - 11,400 = 4,481 lbs.

It seems that tongue weight is getting mixed into both figures and I can't tell where or how. I'm sure our Montana will weigh more than 4,481 lbs.!!!!! What should I do to get the correct figures?

By the way, I will weigh the truck with full fuel, both passengers, 5th wheel hitch, and miscellaneous items when I get it ready. The stated curb weight from the manufacturer is 6,231 lbs. I know we will weigh more than that and I will have to figure that into the weights later.

Thanks for any clarification on the above figures.

Larry

[exav8tr]

Larry, The pin weight of the Montana is figured into the GVWR of the truck. In other words, empty weight of truck, pax, fuel, cargo(including hitch) and pin weight of the trailer must not exceed 11,400 lbs.

The GCWR (combined weight of truck and trailer) should be around 23,500. This means the total weight of your truck (including pax, fuel, cargo) PLUS the total loaded weight of your Montana, should not exceed this number. Keep in mind, IF the total weight of your loaded Montana weighs 16,000 lbs, then the total weight of your truck should be no more than 7,500 lbs.

Most folks load up the truck with pax, fuel and cargo, then weigh it as a baseline. THEN add the trailer and just move the truck onto the scales and get a total number. Then subtract the known weight of truck and this will give you the pin weight of your trailer. You can then move JUST the trailer wheels onto the scale and get the trailer weight of your trailer over the axles, this is referred to as gross axle weight. Add this number to the pin weight of trailer and you have total weight of trailer. Or you can drop the entire trailer, sans the truck, on the scales and get the same figure.

Most people can be within the limits of the truck AND the limits of the trailer, BUT be over the Gross Combined Weight Rating.

It is a balancing act we do between truck and trailer to be within the combined rating.

Then again, many of us just tow over these numbers and do not worry about it. Remember when you loaded bags of cement into the truck until you were an inch from the springs???? I think many folks worry too much about these weights. These vehicles were built with a pretty good safety margin built in.

NOW, if you are worried about warranty issues then one must keep these figures in mind. For example, my trailer is out of warranty, If I break it, I fix it.......I am prepared to do this if something happens.......

Hope this clears it up somewhat.....

[Mudchief]

Larry, I agree with Phil, however with that 1 ton dually you don't need to worry about weights.

[TLightning]

The Tire and Loading Information sticker on the left rear door panel will tell you the cargo capacity of your truck. My truck, similar to yours except 2wd, has a capcity of 4,240...yours, being a 4wd, should be about 200# less.

[KathyandDave]

Weights are always a hot topic on the MOC. We have a few different measurements to satisfy:
GCWR for the truck, including the trailer (affects pulling, STOPPING and general stability);
GAWR for each truck axle (pin weight + the truck rear end and fuel and your gold bullion must total less than the RAWR, big diesels and transmissions challenge the FAWR, and the total for both axles can't exceed the GVWR);
GAWR for the trailer axles (has been an issue in Montanas);
Maximum weight rating for the tires all around (divide axle weights by two, or four for duallies) and proper inflation for your actual load;
Maximum allowed vehicle weight for your personal drivers licence class (highway patrol and weighscale staff can stop you cold on this one - enforcement on RV's varies);
Maximum allowed weight for your vehicle and trailer permit scheme (varies by state and province, but usually you're OK in other jurisdictions if you're good in your own).
Your actual weights, weighed as xav8tr describes, have to fit within the various boundaries or, if they don't, then you can decide what to amend and what to accommodate according to your own ideas about risk. At least you'll make informed decisions.

[Countryfolks]

quote:Originally posted by Longwell

I have been gathering specifications for our truck and have run across some figures I can't "figure" out. I found the following:

"GVWR is the weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer as the maximum weight (including vehicle, cargo, liquids, passengers, etc.) that the components of the chassis are designed to support." Wouldn't this include the tongue weight of the trailer?
The GVWR of our truck is 11,400 lbs.

Yes, it includes everything in or on the truck.

"GCWR is the maximum allowable total loaded weight rating of the motor vehicle and any trailer it is towing." Should I add the GCWR of the truck and the GCWR of the trailer?
The GCWR of our truck is 15,881 lbs.

No, part of the gross trailer weight is carried by the truck as pin weight. You probably have a GCWR of about 23-24k lbs, the 15,881 is probably the gross weight of a 5er, by itself, the truck is designed to handle.

"GCWR minus GVWR represents the allowable weight for the towed vehicle (my emphasis)." How does this work? Do they mean the tongue weight (I hope)?
15,881 - 11,400 = 4,481 lbs.

If your TV, loaded, weighs 8k lbs and the pin weight, loaded is 3k lbs, you have 11k lbs GVW for the TV. If the 5er, loaded and not hooked up is 14k lbs, you subtract the pin weight since it is already included as part of the TV total.
11,000 + (14,000 - 3,000) = 22,000 = GCWR or
8,000 + 14,000 = 22,000 = GCWR
Your GCWR is more likely the combination,approximately, of the dry weight [wet weight will probably be closer to 7000-7500 lbs] and the 15,881 which is probably max tow weight.
15,881 + 6,231 = 22,112

It seems that tongue weight is getting mixed into both figures and I can't tell where or how. I'm sure our Montana will weigh more than 4,481 lbs.!!!!! What should I do to get the correct figures?

Weigh the TV as it will be when on the road without the 5er, be sure to get both the front and rear axles separate and the total, this is your GVW.
Weigh the complete rig TV and RV, road ready, and get a weight reading for the TV front and rear axles and the trailer axles, this is your GCW.
TV/RV rear - TV rear = pin weight

By the way, I will weigh the truck with full fuel, both passengers, 5th wheel hitch, and miscellaneous items when I get it ready. The stated curb weight from the manufacturer is 6,231 lbs. I know we will weigh more than that and I will have to figure that into the weights later.

Thanks for any clarification on the above figures.

Larry

[Bill-N-Donna]

I have conflicting weight concerns. Everything I came up with indicates that I’m limited to a GCVWR of 20,000 lbs even with my diesel dually. Individual axle ratings, truck ratings and what the truck will tow adds up to about 22-23000 lbs. Why there is less ratings when combined I haven’t figured out yet.

[KathyandDave]

Here's what I do to get the "numbers":
As others do, I drive the loaded TV over the scales, without the trailer, and Kathy writes down the front axle alone weight and the rear axle alone weight. Then, we drive the TV/Monty combination over the scales and write down the front axle loaded, rear axle loaded and trailer tandem axles as a single number for the pair. Now, I have all the numbers I need (ignoring left/right variations) to calculate the rest.
Weight of the loaded TV alone = TV front alone + TV rear alone.
Combined weight = front loaded + rear loaded + tandem.
Pin weight = rear axle loaded - rear axle alone.
Trailer weight alone = pin weight + tandem.

The back pages of our Sierra's manual have tables of maximum weights/capacities for the various configurations the vehicle is sold in. I looked up our configuration (diesel, CC, etc.) for the maximum numbers, which I think of as the maximum "moving" (pulling and stopping) numbers. The moving capacity includes absolutely everything from nose to stern, including the Monty, fuel, us, the dog and the cat. The combined weight measured above should be less than the moving capacity.
The Sierra's door sticker shows the axle ratings and the gross weight for the specific vehicle, which I think of as the "stationary" numbers (although they include the frame, axle and spring capacities for rough roads). Each axle's limit is shown but, for some reason that I don't know, they add up to more than the total vehicle.
What I can carry extra on each axle = axle rating - axle alone (measured above). For the Sierra, this is usually a bag of chips at the front axle and much more for the duallies (which have to carry the trailer's pin weight).
Comment on vehicle configuration: the diesel, the heavy-duty transmission, the extra differential and transfer case for the 4x4, crew cab, extra fuel tank, etc., all increase the weight of the front axle and reduce the moving and stationary capacities. The two extra wheels for the dually, while adding moving weight, improve rear axle capacity.
The rated total for the trailer is on its placard (found in two places in our Monty). The tandem axles are not intended to carry the pin weight. The pin weight should be about one fifth of the trailer total, or about one-quarter of the tandem weight.

Note: I use the word "I" a lot because my way of doing things is not guaranteed to be the "right" way - whatever that is - it's just my closest approach. Others do differently and sometimes they offer insights that cause me to change my approach. The MOC is wonderful!