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06-14-2014, 12:30 PM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,284
M.O.C. #11675
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Creeping Slides
Hello,
The last couple times we have gone to pick up our trailer, the bed and dinette slides (hydraulic) have been out a few inches, but not the third hydraulic slide (closet). I don't see any evidence of a leak, but not sure how to proceed?? We'd greatly appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks!
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06-14-2014, 12:42 PM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3,335
M.O.C. #10496
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We had "slide creep" on our long slide and our bedroom slide. Happened mostly during the winter.There was never any noticeable loss of hydraulic fluid in the reservoir.
The fix was to replace the hydraulic actuators on both slides. The hydraulic rams were leaking internally bypassing seals. Once we had the hydraulic rams replaced there was no more "slide creep". Cost us $1400.00 to get it fixed at CW. Peace of mind... priceless.
__________________
2010 3150RL
LevelUp, Dual 6 volt batteries, Progressive Industries EMS HW50C, Honda EU2000i Generator, Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires, Torklift Glowstep Revolution Stairs, LED Tail lights
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie SRW LB CC Cummins 6.7L Aisin Trans B&W RVK3600
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06-14-2014, 01:31 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,284
M.O.C. #11675
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by CORattler
We had "slide creep" on our long slide and our bedroom slide. Happened mostly during the winter.There was never any noticeable loss of hydraulic fluid in the reservoir.
The fix was to replace the hydraulic actuators on both slides. The hydraulic rams were leaking internally bypassing seals. Once we had the hydraulic rams replaced there was no more "slide creep". Cost us $1400.00 to get it fixed at CW. Peace of mind... priceless.
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Thanks Jay. Hopefully our extended warranty will cover something like that! Appreciate the reply.
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06-14-2014, 08:17 PM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Omaha
Posts: 6,754
M.O.C. #7560
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We had the problem on our bedroom slide and it only happened in the spring. I found out it was caused by the expansion of the hydraulic fluid caused by the warming of it in the spring. Once it warmed up from the winters sleep it would not happen again until the next spring again!
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06-15-2014, 05:41 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
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The very sad part of getting work done at a dealer is they seldom know a great deal about the hydraulic operation and are quick to replace parts that may or may not be needed.
Not to be argumentative but a liquid cannot be compressed (hyd fluid) therefore it cannot expand/contract with temperature change. There may be air in the system which most certainly can expand and contract or the metal of the cylinder allowing fluid to pass the piston seal. It is all about pressurizing a circuit with no leakage past a valve or the piston seal, pressure must be maintained with no leakage back to the non pressure side, a leak at either location will cause your indicated problem.
There are pressure tests that can be done to determine where the leak is but again one must have some knowledge of how it all works.
I would cycle the slides in and out a few times to ensure there is no air in the system, check to make sure your fluid level is correct with all slides in as well.
The components used in our RV's are about the cheapest you can get and that is why we encounter all of these problems.
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06-15-2014, 06:13 AM
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#6
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Site Team
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Omaha
Posts: 6,754
M.O.C. #7560
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Ed, all I can say is that is what my service tech told me. He is not with any dealership and is a certified independent tech in the area. I frankly would trust him over any dealership tech. I'm not an engineer so I can't tell you Yes or No on the subject but this is what I was told. It may have been air in the lines but it was funny that it only happened in the early spring when the weather was starting to warm up some! I'm just a Nebraska farm boy and don't know to much about these new fangled things!
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06-15-2014, 06:40 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Rondo
Ed, all I can say is that is what my service tech told me. He is not with any dealership and is a certified independent tech in the area. I frankly would trust him over any dealership tech. I'm not an engineer so I can't tell you Yes or No on the subject but this is what I was told. It may have been air in the lines but it was funny that it only happened in the early spring when the weather was starting to warm up some! I'm just a Nebraska farm boy and don't know to much about these new fangled things!
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Rondo, I am not disputing or arguing with the expansion due to temperature change, only that it is not the liquid that expands or contracts. If you take a water storage tank and fill it completely with water you will have the pump cycle on and off as you draw water from the tank, if you allow an air space in the tank as the pressure from the water "compresses" the air you will have that air expand when you open a tap until the pressure in the system reaches the point where the pump cuts in, this allows for several gallons to be drawn from the tank without the pump coming on, due to the expansion/contraction of the air.
I am no engineer either, but I have worked in a hydraulic shop and have a home water system operated from a well and know that my storage tank must have an air space to compress. Newer tanks have a diaphragm separating the water from the air chambers which makes it impossible to loose the air space, and it is the expansion of the diaphragm into the air space that creates pressure in the tank. Been there done that with my water system.
There are several spots leakage can occur allowing the slide to creep, but in all cases it is the change in pressure differential between one side and the other of the cylinders piston.
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06-15-2014, 04:08 PM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,284
M.O.C. #11675
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Thanks Irlp and Rondo-
I put all the slides in this morning, and the level is way down on the reservoir. If I recall correctly, it is supposed to be within 1/2" of the top of the reservoir. They (CW) just cycled it and topped off the fluid within the year, so there must be a fairly substantial leak somewhere it sounds like.
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06-16-2014, 03:59 PM
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#9
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Blackduck
Posts: 315
M.O.C. #12753
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Solids,liquids and gasses all have thermal expansion rates.
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03-26-2015, 05:47 PM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,284
M.O.C. #11675
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Well, I thought I would get some more input on this. The first time I took the trailer in, they replaced the actuators like with Jay. Slides kept creeping. I just took it back in and they replaced the pump. I just brought it home from Camping World, went in and ate, came out to check the door locks and the dinette slide was out about 2" already! So, back to CW on Monday for their third try to fix the slide creep. Any other suggestions so I can tell them what to fix?
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03-26-2015, 06:00 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Benson
Posts: 3,121
M.O.C. #1658
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Did they replace all the hydraulic actuators? If not you still have one that is bypassing.
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03-26-2015, 06:17 PM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,284
M.O.C. #11675
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by 8.1al
Did they replace all the hydraulic actuators? If not you still have one that is bypassing.
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Thanks Charlie, I'll check the paperwork for that. I think they did, but I don't have the receipts in front of me. Appreciate the suggestion!
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03-27-2015, 01:38 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Navarre
Posts: 1,527
M.O.C. #9765
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Greg, talk to Jay. Sounds like identical problems.
Mike
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03-27-2015, 04:17 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,261
M.O.C. #3085
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Just for grins ... once you pull the slides in, just barely bump the switch to extend. This will equalize the pressure somewhat on both sides of the cylinders reducing a possible piston seal bypass issue. Let it sit as you have and see if the slide still creeps. The way our slides are plumbed together, any cylinder can effect the others. Some owners really lay on the pump switch after the slides fully retract thinking it will hold them in place way better ... no need as the slides are physically all the way in at this point. All you do is build up unneeded pressure on the retract side of the piston that can possibly bleed over to the extend side and slightly push the slide back out. (if the piston seals are leaking)
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03-27-2015, 04:43 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,284
M.O.C. #11675
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by pineranch
Greg, talk to Jay. Sounds like identical problems.
Mike
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Thanks Mike!
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03-27-2015, 04:45 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,284
M.O.C. #11675
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by dieselguy
Just for grins ... once you pull the slides in, just barely bump the switch to extend. This will equalize the pressure somewhat on both sides of the cylinders reducing a possible piston seal bypass issue. Let it sit as you have and see if the slide still creeps. The way our slides are plumbed together, any cylinder can effect the others. Some owners really lay on the pump switch after the slides fully retract thinking it will hold them in place way better ... no need as the slides are physically all the way in at this point. All you do is build up unneeded pressure on the retract side of the piston that can possibly bleed over to the extend side and slightly push the slide back out. (if the piston seals are leaking)
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Thanks dieselguy, will give it a shot. That way if it's raining, hopefully they won't be out 16-18"!
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03-27-2015, 12:20 PM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land O Lakes
Posts: 2,751
M.O.C. #7753
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We had the same issue with out 08 Big Sky, We mentioned it at the fall rally and Keystone sent it over to Lippert and they replaced the big slide ram. This seems to be an ongoing problem with that ram as several members have had the same issue with the same results. It was an internal leak within the ram itself. The internal check valves were leaking. Before we had it repaired I would notice that the bdrm and kitchen slides would drift out while driving. I would draw them back in and flip the switch back and forth once or twice and that would hold for awhile. It has been 2 yrs since Lippert replaced the ram and no more slide drift. Keystone picked up the bill..
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03-27-2015, 03:53 PM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mesa az
Posts: 2,963
M.O.C. #5651
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Last fall I had the 2 big slide rams replaced by Lippert at the fall rally. They said it is usually the big ones that are bad when slides creep. I don't think they even tested anything - just replaced them. So far no problems (drove 2000 miles home from rally and a 400 mile trip this spring).
__________________
Tom and Gail
2013 Mountaineer 362
2012 Silverado 2500
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03-27-2015, 06:34 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3,335
M.O.C. #10496
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As a follow up... I am now on my 3rd technician to fix this issue. CW replaced 2 rams and that didn't fix the problem. $1400 and not fixed. I refused to let them touch it ever again. I won't even shop there anymore. I have now spent $3000 on this issue. The tech I currently have owns his RV repair business and has 27 years experience. He has consulted directly with Lippert and has followed their testing protocols to the letter. The conclusion he and Lippert arrived at was that the pump needed to be replaced. He has done that and the slides no longer creep. He is completing his post pump install testing now to confirm the pressure results are correct. I can't wait to get his settle up bill. I look forward to having this issue finally resolved. Vallecito, here we come!
__________________
2010 3150RL
LevelUp, Dual 6 volt batteries, Progressive Industries EMS HW50C, Honda EU2000i Generator, Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires, Torklift Glowstep Revolution Stairs, LED Tail lights
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie SRW LB CC Cummins 6.7L Aisin Trans B&W RVK3600
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03-28-2015, 08:55 AM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,284
M.O.C. #11675
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I just picked up the trailer Thursday. They replaced the pump this time - $2,000 but luckily I have an extended warranty. Thursday night the dinette slide came out about 2", and Friday morning the wardrobe slide was out about 3". So, have had the actuators replaced, and the pump, and still creeping. Sounds like the rams are next to try.
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