Start Honoring Your Factory Warranty

[JandC]

Most consumers, especially retired ones, do a little research prior to spending $50,000 to $90,000 on a Fifth Wheel RV. They may go to RV shows, visit dealer's lots, and talk to other RVers, but they will also do some research using the internet.

I have had several issues with my 2014 Montana while still under warranty. A couple minor issues were fixed by my selling dealer, another couple issues can not be fixed because they have been waiting on back ordered parts for months. The main issue is I have roof staples that are raised and roof edging under my roof membrane that is starting to push up against the membrane. This is obviously faulty workmanship that will only get worse. The defective roof will possibly create mold issues, and some day soon cause my roof to fail and start leaking. Keystone's refusal to repair this issue under warranty speaks loud and clear about the quality of their products, and the quality of their company.

If I were new to RVing and was beginning my research on what Fifth Wheel to purchase, reading about Keystone's failure to honor warranty issues would be a DEAL BREAKER. I would not even consider purchasing a new or used Montana due to the fear of not only zero support from such a company, but the fear that such a company could soon fold and go out of business.

Refusing to honor a factory warranty for obvious defective material and workmanship within the first year may save Keystone RV some money in the short term. This is especially true if, as some suspect, the factory has turned out hundred and hundreds of defective roofs in the last couple of years. But I can assure you that once it is documented by a large number of folks on the internet that Keystone RV does not honor their factory warranty and their Montana models have a serious roof issue, then your reputation will be tarnished forever and profits will soon start the downward spiral.

[DQDick]

It's not just new buyers this affects. Think of the number of us who currently own Montana's and don't want to start a new group of problems.

[K0LCB]

Some delers give excellent customer service, many only care about the sale

[DarMar]

Great post Joe. We are on our 4th Montana and when we bought our last we KNEW it would be another Montana without looking around because of our personal satisfaction rate and feeling of confidence about the product we got from ownership and being members of the MOC forum.

I can honestly say after the repeated serious incidents of frustration with Keystone on this forum a little voice has shown up in the back of my mind that is saying maybe it's time to rethink that built up confidence. Members frequently being rejected in their efforts to have repairs done under warranty has further amplified that voice.

Now and in future I find myself looking around at other options and evaluating other manufactures reputations and even their participation on other forums to resolve owners issues. Down the road we will not buy another without having confidence in the product AND more importantly the company to stand behind it.

[Irlpguy]

quote:Originally posted by K0LCB

Some delers give excellent customer service, many only care about the sale

I have only had dealings with two dealers. The one we bought our SOB from was excellent, but so was the manufacturer with the only problem I had with my SOB. The dealer we bought our Montana from is very large, has about 20 service bays and by far is more concerned with selling units and ensuring those sold are prepped and out the lot before wanting to deal with "old" owners.

We must remember, no matter how good the dealer is, he is limited to what Keystone will approve with respect to repairs. No dealer is going to take on the expense of a major repair without knowing they are going to be compensated by Keystone. Therein lies the problem, Keystone is certainly trying it's utmost to "NOT" honor any commitment to customers who have purchased their product.

Until such times as there are more controls in the RV industry we are going to see this happen in my opinion. The manufacturers who are paying attention to their customers will surpass those who don't, it won't happen overnight but it will happen.

[pineranch]

From personal experience, Keystone will not STEP on a high volume dealer especially during industry slowdowns. So between dealer reluctance and manufacture cost controls, we are put in purgatory.
Mike

[WeBeFulltime]

Three years ago when we were ready to buy our current unit we didn't even consider other brands because we had been very happy with our first Montana. After seeing so many recent posts about Keystone not taking care of warranty issues like they used to, we will be shopping others in the future if Keystone continues their current trend.

[TLightning]

Two comments:

- We must remember that on the forum we are going to get complaints and problems. For everyone of those, how many folks have no problems or issues...but don't come on here and mention that?

- If I have a serious issue which I think requires action by the manufacturer, I send a very detailed and courteous letter to the lowest person in the chain of command that has the authority to fix it. My letter includes names, dates, times, places, previous attempts to get the issue solved and similar information. If that doesn't work, I find out who is next in the chain, send a similar letter, mentioning the earlier person who denied my request. I keep going until I get somebody who agrees with me and agrees to fix my rig. This has worked in the past and I've yet to get to the top guy or gal.

[jimcol]

quote:Originally posted by WeBeFulltime

Three years ago when we were ready to buy our current unit we didn't even consider other brands because we had been very happy with our first Montana. After seeing so many recent posts about Keystone not taking care of warranty issues like they used to, we will be shopping others in the future if Keystone continues their current trend.

This is not meant to be disparaging to the people who are having the issues. If I was in their shoes I would feel exactly the same way. Having said that I'm not sure we are seeing "so many more recent post" as much as we are seeing many of the same individual's problems reiterated in many post" Jim

[Irlpguy]

quote:Originally posted by TLightning

Two comments:

- We must remember that on the forum we are going to get complaints and problems. For everyone of those, how many folks have no problems or issues...but don't come on here and mention that?

- If I have a serious issue which I think requires action by the manufacturer, I send a very detailed and courteous letter to the lowest person in the chain of command that has the authority to fix it. My letter includes names, dates, times, places, previous attempts to get the issue solved and similar information. If that doesn't work, I find out who is next in the chain, send a similar letter, mentioning the earlier person who denied my request. I keep going until I get somebody who agrees with me and agrees to fix my rig. This has worked in the past and I've yet to get to the top guy or gal.

Tom the forum provides headings specifically to deal with issues folks are having with their Montana's, as is this one. Perhaps the Administrators would like to provide a heading strictly for those who have had no problems and yet wish to comment there.

I have to as how it is you know who is lowest on the totem pole at Keystone who might be able to help with an issue and is your starting point. From there in what manner do you ascertain who is next up the chain of command to continue your pursuit of a resolution. Most on this forum are not privy to that information and I dare say would have a tough time determining where to start and from there where to direct their complaint.

Trying to get information out of Keystone voluntarily is like pulling hens teeth, good luck for the most part.

Most of us start with Customer Service or Owner Relations or whatever the catchword of the day is. Most of us rarely get beyond that person in any communication directly with a person who can/will help you.

While your rendition of how you accomplish the resolution of your issues, I assure you it is not an easy task to obtain that information let alone get a response. This leads to enormous frustration as has been reported here over and over again.

Perhaps you would like to share inside information you might have with those who are not getting results, because they are being ignored by the so called people who can do something for you.

Many on this forum have reported absolutely no problems with their Montana's, I am sorry if it offends those people but I have never met anyone who has not encountered some problems. They may be small and insignificant in the big scheme of things but no unit has ever been made that was perfect and without some issues.

Most if not all of us expect the products we purchase to perhaps have some issues, that is one thing, being stonewalled and outright refusing to deal with those problems is an entirely different thing. Unfortunately that is what seems to be the norm now with Keystone.

[CORattler]

quote:Originally posted by jimcol

This is not meant to be disparaging to the people who are having the issues. If I was in their shoes I would feel exactly the same way. Having said that I'm not sure we are seeing "so many more recent post" as much as we are seeing many of the same individual's problems reiterated in many post" Jim

Jim,
If it was just 2 or 3 of the same people complaining repeatedly about every little thing, I might be inclined to agree with you... BUT one only needs to read Gina and Steves post regarding their NEW 2015 Big Sky (Montanas flagship) to begin to understand the depth of some Montana owners pain and frustration. There are others as well.
I too have had a serious issue with my Montana that (so far) has cost me nearly $3000 and it's not fixed yet. To be fair to Keystone,this is not solely their fault. I guess I just expected better service out of a $60000 plus RV.

[JandC]

I just want to remind folks on this forum of one thing. I have only been a member here for about 2 years. When I joined and purchased my first used 2008 3400RL I was like a "kid in a candy store". We could not have been happier with that unit! Obviously there were no negative feelings toward Keystone RV only positive ones. I read on the forum of very few issues with new units, and I never recalled of reading here or anywhere else of major defects being detected while under factory warranty and Keystone refusing to repair those.

Some may think there are just a few of us with newer units that are being too vocal over a small number of problems. I, on the other hand firmly believe that Keystone RV has demonstrated recently that they are refusing to honor their factory warranty for anything except minor inexpensive repairs, and that major workmanship defects are starting to show up more frequently as they produce more and more models every year.

DQDick hit the nail on the head with his comments IMHO. I don't care if you have a 2005, 2008, or a 2015 Montana, if over the next year or two it becomes widespread common knowledge that Montana Fifth wheels are having numerous holding tank failures and are very prone to poor quality roofing installations, plus the common knowledge (which will be searchable on the internet) that Keystone RV refuses to honor their factory warranties....the values of all of our Montana units will drop.

I never want to see that happen, nor should anyone on this forum want to see that happen.

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Tom the forum provides headings specifically to deal with issues folks are having with their Montana's, as is this one. Perhaps the Administrators would like to provide a heading strictly for those who have had no problems and yet wish to comment there.

I have to as how it is you know who is lowest on the totem pole at Keystone who might be able to help with an issue and is your starting point. From there in what manner do you ascertain who is next up the chain of command to continue your pursuit of a resolution. Most on this forum are not privy to that information and I dare say would have a tough time determining where to start and from there where to direct their complaint.

Trying to get information out of Keystone voluntarily is like pulling hens teeth, good luck for the most part.

Most of us start with Customer Service or Owner Relations or whatever the catchword of the day is. Most of us rarely get beyond that person in any communication directly with a person who can/will help you.

While your rendition of how you accomplish the resolution of your issues, I assure you it is not an easy task to obtain that information let alone get a response. This leads to enormous frustration as has been reported here over and over again.

Perhaps you would like to share inside information you might have with those who are not getting results, because they are being ignored by the so called people who can do something for you.

Many on this forum have reported absolutely no problems with their Montana's, I am sorry if it offends those people but I have never met anyone who has not encountered some problems. They may be small and insignificant in the big scheme of things but no unit has ever been made that was perfect and without some issues.

Most if not all of us expect the products we purchase to perhaps have some issues, that is one thing, being stonewalled and outright refusing to deal with those problems is an entirely different thing. Unfortunately that is what seems to be the norm now with Keystone.

I don't have any inside information and have no connection with Keystone. Keystone should be the last resort, if the fix is within the capability of the dealer, you should try him/her first. Then call Keystone. You have to get on the phone and ask, and don't take the first "no" like it's cast in stone. Befriend who ever answers the phone. I usually say something like, "hi ___, I've talked to you before, now I'm having a problem with___and hope you can help me out." When finished you thank him/her very much and say something like, "BTW, who do you work for, who's your boss?" That's how I got started once. Send that person a very detailed snail mail letter (registered mail) explaining EVERYTHING. The problem and the ordeal you have gone through trying to get it fixed...names, dates, times, and places.

A great source of information is the gal who answers the phone and routes the calls. On one occasion, with a different RV, I called and told her I didn't really know with whom I should talk, but here's what I've done and here's what I really needed. After being hassled for about four months, getting the run around from everybody, this guy told me I needed to bring my RV to the factory and they'd make it right...no charge and after the warranty had expired. He also wanted copies of letters I had sent to the dealer and the other people in his organization. I had gotten to the right guy.

You have to be friendly, persistent, very detailed, factual and courteous...and don't be put off when you get a couple of "NOs."

[Irlpguy]

quote:

I don't have any inside information and have no connection with Keystone. Keystone should be the last resort, if the fix is within the capability of the dealer, you should try him/her first. Then call Keystone. You have to get on the phone and ask, and don't take the first "no" like it's cast in stone. Befriend who ever answers the phone. I usually say something like, "hi ___, I've talked to you before, now I'm having a problem with___and hope you can help me out." When finished you thank him/her very much and say something like, "BTW, who do you work for, who's your boss?" That's how I got started once. Send that person a very detailed snail mail letter (registered mail) explaining EVERYTHING. The problem and the ordeal you have gone through trying to get it fixed...names, dates, times, and places.

A great source of information is the gal who answers the phone and routes the calls. On one occasion, with a different RV, I called and told her I didn't really know with whom I should talk, but here's what I've done and here's what I really needed. After being hassled for about four months, getting the run around from everybody, this guy told me I needed to bring my RV to the factory and they'd make it right...no charge and after the warranty had expired. He also wanted copies of letters I had sent to the dealer and the other people in his organization. I had gotten to the right guy.

You have to be friendly, persistent, very detailed, factual and courteous...and don't be put off when you get a couple of "NOs."

Tom, during the early days of owning my Montana I got to know each "service writer" as well as the Service Manager on a first name basis, our conversations were always respectful until a worker and the service manager tried to feed me something that was very much untrue, when corrected by myself the worker was embarrassed, the service manager said "you certainly know a great deal about how these things are built, you should be working here".
Now if I had not known they were feeding me the BS I would have accepted their words as the way it was, that is what happens to the greatest number of RV owners when dealing with dealerships.

Although the dealer acknowledged my unit did have frame flex (impossible to not see it), it took a considerable time and effort on both our behalves to get Keystone to agree to the "field" repair.

I have repaired numerous issues myself, I did this because it was less frustrating than hauling the rig to the dealer and I at least knew the work was done and done properly.

I first contacted my dealer about my roof problem and was told there was no warranty by Keystone to cover it. I was asked if I had extended warranty, which I do. I advised the dealer that I was not prepared to have my extended warranty pay for something that was clearly a Keystone issue. I asked if I could bring it in to have them assess the issue and report to Keystone, his response was, "well we might be able to get it in sometime in the next couple of months, we just finished our big RV show and must get the newly sold units ready for pickup, that is our priority for now".
I said ok give me a time and date and I will bring it in, I will not leave it sitting in your lot for upward of two months. His response to that was "we can't book that far ahead for a specific date due to new sales and units already sitting on the lot waiting to be worked on".

I then contacted Keystone and the story goes on but I won't go any further than to say at this point I have gotten no where. All I asked of Keystone was to assess the pictures submitted and advise me if I should take it to a dealer to have them assess it.

I have not gotten angry or swore at anyone but ask me if I am I having fun yet. We will keep on plodding on.