Quality

[paiceman]

We are considering a Montana, but most of what I read are quality issues and keystone not being cooperative. So, we started looking into New Horizons, very expensive but also very few issues.

Would appreciate insights, good and bad.

Thanks

Bud

[Mudchief]

We are on our 3rd Montana and have not had a problem with any. A few people have had some really bad problems but if you consider how many Montana's are built that is a very small group.

[mhs4771]

If you're looking at New Horizons, you better be looking at a BIG TV to haul it.

[jameswbarton]

You are comparing a Custom Built to an assembly line built. If you want Custom high quality you have your answer. You cannot compare the two. There are many recent posts about the Montana High Country line and the Montana line. Go to the BBB in Goshen IN and query keystone complaints. Which model of Montana are you interested in? I am sure there are owners of the model on this site that can give you their specifics.

[Dam Worker]

I am not impressed with the quality in my unit. That being said others have had no or relatively few issues. I doubt I would ever buy another one. I would look more at SOB like DRV etc. yes more money but probably a better unit and yes they weigh more. I think at one time the Montana was very good but they might have slid on QC and went with their good reputation.

Tom Marty

[DQDick]

You have to look at the number of Montana's sold, the number of members on this forum and the fact that most of us have no reason to post here other than to help others, because our rigs are fine. We looked at New Horizons, even went to their factory and would have had to pay 3 times what we paid (we did buy a brand new year old discontinued model and got a great deal) and we would have had to have a 450 truck or a retired semi to tow the New Horizons we would have bought safely.

[BB_TX]

Comparing Montana to New Horizons is comparing apples to oranges. Prices are not even close. Compare Montana to a higher end Forest River or Jayco or K-Z. Compare New Horizons to Mobile Suites or other high priced units. I don't know that you would find another brand in the same price range and features as Montana with any significantly better quality.

[jcurtis934]

I agree with the premise that you cannot compare the montana to the new horizon or others close to this. Nor drv line. Different animals, different costs, different quality standards. I don't have any previous fifth wheel ownership to bias me in any way. I feel keystone did a very good job in layout functionality, but the things that were inadequate assembly-wise on my unit were things that could have been avoided resulting in a top notch product for the price. Some things like cheap recliners, tires below quality level of the montana line just weaken the montana image to me. I'll continue to enjoy my montana as I keep it in towing and living condition and not try to understand if the product line is slipping away by chasing higher build numbers using todays workers, management, and suppliers. John

[1retired06]

quote:Originally posted by BB_TX

Comparing Montana to New Horizons is comparing apples to oranges. Prices are not even close. Compare Montana to a higher end Forest River or Jayco or K-Z. Compare New Horizons to Mobile Suites or other high priced units. I don't know that you would find another brand in the same price range and features as Montana with any significantly better quality.

Agree, and most folks have had good luck with Montana. New horizon is a great unit, we have looked at them 140 to 180K, and forget pulling with a one ton.

[bigskyjimmy]

Let's see I read New Horizons sells 25-30 custom units or something a year and cost what 140K to start and Montana sells about 3-4K every year and cost 50-75K, like was said before apples to oranges,I would LOVE to have a New Horizons but last time I checked my bank account I think I running a bit short to buy the New Horizons OR the Rig to pull it,OH well I will have to settle for my Ghetto Monty but all 3 of my Monty's has served me well and we are happy campers,Although I did see a used 2008 New Horizons with Faded Graphics for sale for 70K if that is what you are looking for also it would not surprise me if New Horizons goes Belly up like Excel Did or gets bought out like DRV

[Bigboomer]

We love our Montana. It has had a few issues albeit minor, but expect it since we are a rolling earthquake everytime we take it out on the road.
NH is nice and so are the costs, weights, etc.

You would be better served to compare a Montana to any of the other Thor products like Landmark, Big Horn, etc. Even DRV but that is still a higher end and heavier. I have seen folks towing the DRV's with a 1 ton but your still at the limits.

Remember Thor owns 86% of the market share with all the RV companies it owns, Forest River another 10 to 12%, so your going to get what you pay for regardless.

[Rondo]

DQDICK had the answer! Compare the number of Montana's that come off the line each year and the number of New Horizons built in a year. Also compare the price of each and what you will have to buy for a tow vehicle and you'll see a drastic difference. Also as Dick said, the number of members here and the number of complaints coming for members is a mere fraction of the membership. If you want to own an RV you better get used to and be capable of doing some work on it not matter what brand it is. Think if you took your house and put it on wheels and drug it around the country on some of our less than perfect highways and biways. Do you think you would have any problems with your house? I'd say you'd have a whole lot more! If you have the money to purchase a New Horizon go ahead and do so but be prepared to have problems with it also. There is no RV period that is perfect and that will not have problems. If you find one, you better keep it a secret because someone will come and try and steal it. LOL The Montana brand has been the #1 seller for the past 11 years and that has got to give you some indication as to what they are all about!

[sambam]

quote:Originally posted by Rondo

DQDICK had the answer! Compare the number of Montana's that come off the line each year and the number of New Horizons built in a year. Also compare the price of each and what you will have to buy for a tow vehicle and you'll see a drastic difference. Also as Dick said, the number of members here and the number of complaints coming for members is a mere fraction of the membership. If you want to own an RV you better get used to and be capable of doing some work on it not matter what brand it is. Think if you took your house and put it on wheels and drug it around the country on some of our less than perfect highways and biways. Do you think you would have any problems with your house? I'd say you'd have a whole lot more! If you have the money to purchase a New Horizon go ahead and do so but be prepared to have problems with it also. There is no RV period that is perfect and that will not have problems. If you find one, you better keep it a secret because someone will come and try and steal it. LOL The Montana brand has been the #1 seller for the past 11 years and that has got to give you some indication as to what they are all about!

I could not agree more. My 2010, which I bought in 2013, has been exceptional. The problems I've had have been mostly brought on by myself and my ever-curious frame of mind. Sometimes I dive into stuff that should be left alone, or to the experts. My Cougar TT had a lot more quality-related issues than this one and most of them I was able to solve by myself. I have no complaints, but you simply MUST have the ability to diagnose and fix things, or have plenty of disposable cash, cuz dispose of it, you will. Better to have both.
I will say that due to some of the major problems I've seen come across this forum recently (Golfmedic comes to mind), I think I'll stick with this one for a few more years. The smartest thing I've done is join this forum.

[WeBeFulltime]

It would be a no-brainer for me. If I could comfortably afford a New Horizons then by all means that is what I would buy.

[richfaa]

Here is the problem. You are tired of your Montana and all the problems large or small so you have got to get rid of it. But wait you can not afford to go to a so called higher quality brand and if you did it would require a bigger truck to pull it.The brands in your price range are really no better no worse than the Montana read the owners forums of other comparable brand's.Read RV net were folks are not so shy to talk about the brands they have. Tour the factories.

Until it is proven to me by actual experience Keystone still has the best customer service in the Mid priced brands.That is a big plus.they break but keystone will give the support. When they stop doing that you will hear it from me in bold Capital letters.

What to do, what to do. We are faced with that decision. This thing could end up bolted to the lot in Florida as our permanent winter residence.

Perhaps a smaller unit for our travels we have been about everywhere and our travels will decrease.

Call it a experience cash in and travel in the Honda SUV.

Something has got to give we have been on this present journey for 10 years and in Rv'ing for many more.
We are getting old and tired.

I have been a critic of Keystone for years but they have always treated me fairly and with respect. That does not mean I got my way in every encounter.

This latest round of failures may be what was needed to make the decision.

[jameswbarton]

Rich,

When was the last time you needed Keystone Warranty Covered Repair? Was it in 2014 when your 2013's warranty ran out?
The dealers service manager that has my Montana also sells Forest River and does concur with your statement that Neither of the two companies are great to work with on warranty issues. He made the flip a coin comment as to which is the better of the worst.

And to your comment I have always been communicated to with courtesy and respect it is more that when you are off the phone they just do not do anything. It took 5 phone calls to get a scratched window covered when the first call rep said they would cover it. I pity the local Dealers especially if they have to compete with the big buck guys like Camping World and General RV. If Keystone honored their warranty claims why then did General RV make me sign a waver that I would not sue them for keystone not honoring the warranty?

If I had not decided to trade in my 12 year old motor home I would not have bought a New Montana but would have looked for a used Montana cream puff just like my father used to do back in the days of Automotive Dealer Prep and option costing thousands in repairing factory defects.

I might have kept my old MH but it was getting too old for many of the higher end parks to admit. Never in my life did I expect such poor performance from the Dealer who sold the Montana nor from Keystone who made issue with fixing mostly small cosmetic issues.

So it appears the Industry is headed deeper into the Buyer Beware days with it becoming almost a two party Monopoly where the manufacturer creates the market not the consumer demands and requirements. It is sad for Montana that used to be a very good Quality Value in fifth wheels. I have parked next to some fairly new Montanas the last few years and never heard a bad word from them. I certainly never expected to go through what I have to get issues fixed. I am sure Jayco will follow the same path after being acquired by Thor.

[chris199]

From above...."If Keystone honored their warranty claims why then did General RV make me sign a waver that I would not sue them for keystone not honoring the warranty?"

Likely caused by General RV'S liability insurance company and/or lawyer and/or astute General RV business owner to force a customer to give up their rights to pursue General RV. This doesn't mean Keystone doesn't deal with warranty issues fairly and responsibly.

[richfaa]

"When was the last time you needed Keystone Warranty Covered Repair? Was it in 2014 when your 2013's warranty ran out"

We took delivery June 2012 the Keystone warranty was good for one year till June 2013.We did have warranty work done during that time with no problems with Keystone or dealers. Actually after the Keystone one year warranty is expired they have no obligation beyond that point. We did have vendor provided equipment that failed and replaced under their 2 year warranty with no problem. We did purchase a Extended warranty and have used it since all manufacturers and Keystone warranties have expired with no problems.

All I can say is that we have not had the problems that you have had in communicating with Keystone or in their responses. We have done a lot of communicating over the 10 years we have owned Montana's.

Just as I can not explain why we have holding tank problem after holding tank problem I can not explain why you are having your problems.

[jameswbarton]

Hi Rich,
My point is things change fast when the profit is below budget. I have never had issue with any of the other vendors that are covering their portions of the 1 or two years of warranty. So Dometic and the appliances are fine. It is only the coach issues that are really bad where Keystone has to pay the service hourly rate. My Owner Relations guy actually said he could not believe one of the Keystone CS reps disavowed .3 hours of labor to adjust the flame in the water heater considering the size of my file the complaints. This is also the first extended warranty I have ever purchased. My wife says I no longer have to have a trailer full of tools and spare parts and will no longer spend $10,,000 annually on Motor Home maintenance.

My issues all so far have been with the Build Team and the final checkouts. The only parts that have needed replaced are a window that was scratched, and a window shade with a hole. The rest of the issues were all caused by poor installation except for the design defect where my rear roof ac condensation will never drain into the gutters and will have to be watched to make sure I never get water intrusion into the roof or rear panel. If it had not been for the Air conditioning not working I might have fixed all the issues myself as many others do. We are not yet ready to start full time on the road again so I had the time to have the dealers fix it. It has cost me about $1,500. to do so making 3 payments with it sitting in the shop most of the time and me calling and emailing them every other day or so since 2 June. I hope they get it back by September.

[Phil P]

Hi

The floor plan for our New Horizon has been approved by my wife. The TV requirements are met by the late model Silverado Duramax HD 1 tone duel wheel vehicle. GCWR 30,500 Lbs.

The floor plan is almost a duplicate of the 3665RE Montana we now have.

The cost will exceed what The Montana cost me by less than $5,000 after I had to pay for the repairs Keystone would not do under warranty.

Phil P

PS we are happy with the Montana we have but will not do business with a Thor company ever again.