Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > General Discussions about our Montanas
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-02-2019, 01:37 PM   #1
Loneoak
Montana Master
 
Loneoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Winchester
Posts: 900
M.O.C. #19514
electicity usage

When we are in Florida, we pay for our electricity. Sometimes it is a bit cool in the evening, or in the morning when we get up. We have on occasion left the fireplace on all night to keep the chill off. The temperatures can sometimes get as low as the freezing point.

Here's my question: what is the cheapest form of heat (not including the furnace) - the fireplace, the heat pump, or the Dyson fan/heater (just got one used from our daughter)? All of these run on electricity.

Thanks.
 
__________________

2017 High Country 305RL
2015 Ford F-250 Super Duty
Loneoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 01:59 PM   #2
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
The heat pump will run on 1/2 the electricity that an electric resistance heater uses. Electric resistance heating you get one dollar of heat for every dollar you spend for electricity. Your fireplace is even worse since you have a fan to move the air. Your Dyson is electric resistance heating to. So you get dollar for dollar. Your heat pump doesn’t heat the air. It moves heat from the outside to the inside. All air no matter how cold has heat in it. So all you do is move it in side. So the heat pump is much more efficient.
Lynwood

As an example. I heat my house with a new modern heat pump on 30 amps. It will heat my home down to -15 degrees. It is cheaper to run than to use natural gas even with the most efficient gas furnace.
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 02:33 PM   #3
DQDick
Site Team
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
Having several actual winters to get my info from I can tell you that the heat pump is the correct answer. Several things are different from a stick house however. First since the Heat Pump is on the roof the heat comes down from the ceiling. As a result you need the ceiling fan to move the heat down in your biggest room (for us, the livingroom dining room). Second, since the heat is coming from the ceiling, you need to use the furnace anytime it's going to be below freezing for any period of time so the pipes don't freeze. Stick homes get the benefit of ground heat we don't get.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 03:04 PM   #4
Jamesb
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Boone
Posts: 311
M.O.C. #21011
It is hard to believe, and hard to convince the public that electric is the cheapest utility that we have left. Most people will argue because they have multiple fueled heating sources, and never factor that Bill with their electric bills. Simply put, a BTU is a BTU, no matter how you produce it. And with that known, electric is the cheapest way to produce a BTU. In a sticks / bricks home, I’m not a fan of heat pumps, since the air feels cool, but it is the way to go, if money is a concern.
__________________
2018 Montana HC 362RD
2016 Chevrolet 3500 Duramax HD SRW
Jamesb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 03:15 PM   #5
Jamesb
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Boone
Posts: 311
M.O.C. #21011
After reading your post again, the most efficient electric heater made, is the oil filled radiator looking heaters. Never fall for the Amish made heaters, or the really nice flicking flame box heaters that claim to heat a 10x10 room for pennies. They leave out some details in their marketing ads. Such as, setting must never be higher than low. And, another great pointer for the oil filled heaters, no risk of fire if turned over or items too close to the heat. Some people actually put a small 12v fan behind them and push the heat around. Works great.
__________________
2018 Montana HC 362RD
2016 Chevrolet 3500 Duramax HD SRW
Jamesb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 03:22 PM   #6
Daryles
Montana Master
 
Daryles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,654
M.O.C. #24086
Google solar hot air heaters. Lots of DIY plans.
Yes they dont work at night, but if you use it during the day to heat the space underneath your RV the heat mass will keep you warm for many hours after sunset. Assuming you have an insulated skirt.
__________________
Daryl and Marianne,
2019 3130re 20th Anniversary Edition
2016 F350 Lariat
Daryles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 03:54 PM   #7
Loneoak
Montana Master
 
Loneoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Winchester
Posts: 900
M.O.C. #19514
Thanks everyone. It looks like we will use the heat pump. We don’t need heat much during the day. We do not put skirting around the trailer. You only have to do that in our park if you are permanent, which we are not.
__________________

2017 High Country 305RL
2015 Ford F-250 Super Duty
Loneoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 03:59 PM   #8
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
All electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient no matter how they heat. If they heat air or water then use that to heat the room they are 100% efficient. Unless they have a fan or some other way to distribute the heat then they are less than 100% efficient. 100% efficient means you get $1 worth of heat for $1 of electricity. Heat pumps multiply the efficiency. You get more than a dollars worth of heat for every dollars worth of electricity.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 04:18 PM   #9
Loneoak
Montana Master
 
Loneoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Winchester
Posts: 900
M.O.C. #19514
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh View Post
All electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient no matter how they heat. If they heat air or water then use that to heat the room they are 100% efficient. Unless they have a fan or some other way to distribute the heat then they are less than 100% efficient. 100% efficient means you get $1 worth of heat for $1 of electricity. Heat pumps multiply the efficiency. You get more than a dollars worth of heat for every dollars worth of electricity.
Lynwood
We have a heat pump to heat and cool our stick and brick home. It is a ground source unit with a loop under the ground.
__________________

2017 High Country 305RL
2015 Ford F-250 Super Duty
Loneoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 04:21 PM   #10
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,677
M.O.C. #12947
Electricity may be cheaper to heat with than natural gas in some parts of the country, but go to California and this will throw all the calculations out the window. Electricity is so expensive due to state mandated green sources and other extra expenses that the utilities are required to collect for, that natural gas is the less expensive way to heat. Even propane is cheaper than electric, where natural gas is not available. I retired as a lineman for a utility in California, and customers were always asking how to save money on their bills, and we had to be aware of the best ways for the customers to save. Anything that had to be heated, whether it was air or water, was best with natural gas, then propane, and then electric. Years ago there was a push for the "All Electric Homes", because electricity was dirt cheap, so quite a few homes were built during that time, and a lot of subdivisions were built without natural gas in the utility trenches. Now those homes are not as cheap to own because of only having electric. So, when comparing gas or electric for heat, you really have to look close at the costs for each commodity.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 04:32 PM   #11
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneoak View Post
We have a heat pump to heat and cool our stick and brick home. It is a ground source unit with a loop under the ground.

That is exactly what we had until the compressor went out. Ours was over 15 years old. It’s seer was 15 but was loosing 25 to 30% in out ductwork as almost all do. We replaced it with a Fujitsu mini split for the house with a seer of 20 and one on the sunroom with 26 seer. We have 3 indoor units for the house a 12000, 9000 and a 7000 BYU unit. Each one is controlled by its own thermostat. They only loose about 2 to 3% no ductwork. We run the shop and house off or one meter. Our electric bill went down at least 25%.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 06:28 PM   #12
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
rohrmann Thanks. I’m sure you are correct. I should have added that. We still have cheap electricity here, I think a little over ten cents a kw. Makes a big difference.
Our electric bill to run the house and shop with 3 people working, with 3 CNC machines a phase converter with a 40 HP electric motor running all the time, lights and everything else is on average is under $200. Electricity is the cheapest thing we buy.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 06:50 PM   #13
AZ Traveler
Site Team
 
AZ Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Oro Valley
Posts: 3,899
M.O.C. #20477
Lynwood,

There was a recent thread where one of our members was paying .28 per KWH at the park he was in.
__________________
Zack and Donna plus Millie and Ranger
2018 3160RL

"Life is too short to stay indoors, enjoy the ride!"
AZ Traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 07:08 PM   #14
knapper42
Seasoned Camper
 
knapper42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 64
M.O.C. #21742
Wow I paid .196 at a New Mexico park this summer and I thought that was way high.
knapper
knapper42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 10:12 PM   #15
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,677
M.O.C. #12947
The residential electric rates for PG&E are currently,


Tier 1 - 0-306 kWh $ .22376
Tier 2 - 307-1224 kWh $.28159
Tier 3 - 1225 + kWh $.49334


This rate plan with tiers, where the more you used the higher the cost was put in place by this golden state in an effort to reduce electric usage. I'm not sure what the rates are for the other utilities in California, but they are right on up there too.



This is why, in California, electric is not the way to heat anything.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 08:34 AM   #16
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohrmann View Post
The residential electric rates for PG&E are currently,


Tier 1 - 0-306 kWh $ .22376
Tier 2 - 307-1224 kWh $.28159
Tier 3 - 1225 + kWh $.49334


This rate plan with tiers, where the more you used the higher the cost was put in place by this golden state in an effort to reduce electric usage. I'm not sure what the rates are for the other utilities in California, but they are right on up there too.





This is why, in California, electric is not the way to heat anything.

That is a very good reason to get the highest efficiency heating system you can find if you heat with electricity. The new systems use 1/2 or less the electricity as they did even 10 years ago. If they are older it’s even worse.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 01:38 PM   #17
StageCoachDriver
Montana Fan
 
StageCoachDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Reno
Posts: 291
M.O.C. #22620
RV parks in CA get one bill from PG&E and it's always a tier 3 bill. The park then reads the individual site meters and bill their tenets at the $.50 rate since that's what the park had to pay.


Glad I left CA and settled in NV!
StageCoachDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 02:45 PM   #18
Charlie W
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Oroville
Posts: 66
M.O.C. #23396
And in California on commercial rates whin temperature is over a 100deg they have a special rate and it's .65 per kilowatt can't remember the time that is like from 2 to 7pm
__________________
2018 Montana 3701LK, 2018 Dodge 3500 Laramie.
Charlie W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 06:55 PM   #19
JamesD
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 79
M.O.C. #10843
If you rent a bulk propane tank it's a lot cheaper than filling the 30 & 40 lb tanks.
I think my 40 lb tanks cost about $34 to fill, and a 100 gallon bulk tank costs about $95, and lasts about a month.
The 40 lb tank only holds about 8 gallons. It would cost around $425 for the same amount of propane.
My electric bill went up over $150 using portable electric heaters.
My heat pump broke, so I'm not sure how much it cost to run, but it's only supposed to work down to around 40-45 degrees, and then switch over to propane.

Prices will vary depending on where you are.
JamesD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.