TV is under rated, now what?

[CamillaMichael]

quote:Originally posted by steelpony5555

Yes that was 10800 lbs for a 5th wheel tow rating and a 4x4. The 4x2 was 11,200 lbs. I thought that was kinda low even for a gas 3.73. According to Fords chart there is no difference in towing cap. from TT to 5th wheel?????? If you bump up to a 4.30 rear you go to 13,800 lbs towing cap and 20,000 GCWR. Here's what I found https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...D_F250_350.pdf Even still the gas motor at that weight is gonna do a lot of shifting and high revs on grades. If you live in a flat area and don't do a lot of long distance travel it will probably be ok.

I would imagine that the chart you looked at was not correctly labeled or was incomplete...I have seen many Ford weight charts and they have all listed a clear difference between TT and 5W weight capabilities.

[Emmel]

I understand a person wanting to make themselve think they are legal upgrading their truck, what I don't understand is how a person advises someone else on how to do this. To me when you put this in writing here, you are completely accepting the liability of the persons actions you advised. So, now if I modify my F-250 as you say I can, then when I'm involved in an incedent, I will tell the lawyers that Art was responsible for my modifications. My lawyer would involve you in the lawsuit as an adviser and you would share in the responsiblity.
This has happened here on the forum before and I'd be very careful telling someone on here in print you can beat the lawyers because Art said so.
Now, I'm not going to get into a pissing fit with Art, but written advice is accepted in court.
Make yourself feel safe, legal or not, but don't advise others on modifying their trucks as you did, that could spell trouble for you and them.
And I'm done with this topic now!

[fauch]

Critical load limits are tires/axles
two E rated tires, i think max at 3750 each depending on specific tire
four E rated tires on rear axle vs 2 is a no brainer on tire capacity
F350 even single wheel axle has heavier wall thickness and ~1000 lbs more load carrying capacity than F250 axle.
Here is a chart for 2011 axle specs:
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...nt-rgawr-1.jpg

[Art-n-Marge]

I'm glad you're done, and one of these days I hope we meet, shake hands and congratulate each other for trying to do what's right and not what might work and say so. I guess the consternation is that I should be saying compliant and not legal. Will that help?

In a forum, everything is written, so the cliche, "Say it, forget it, write it, regret it" runs rampant. In this forum, I have been shocked and disappointed by many things I've read that from members who willingly exceed the speed limit or their tire's ratings, use LTs instead of STs (actually, I don't think that is AGAINST the law), continue to drive overloaded knowing so or not even weighing their rigs in the first place, driving with propane turned on (for fridge or heater) and whatever other against-the-grain (or law) way of doing things, but in this forum, once you learn that each owner is an independent "adviser" on what they've done, then everyone in this forum is liable and hopefully safe.

Fortunately for me, in this case, I have access to plenty of information that shows I'm not only compliant, but legal for doing what I did and if I get called to the stand, I'll bring the CHP officers to the stand with me and we can educate some lawyers.

A few other things to gather from other posts:

- Camilla Michael: The original link to the weight tables provided by steelpony showed Conventional Tow limits in the upper table and Fifth Wheel limits in a lower table per motor and cab types. The problem with the table is it's from 2002 and the OP has a 2004, even though I believe, 2002, 2003, and 2004 were the same from the factory, you must compare the same model year table to your truck (it should be in the owner's manual that came with your truck)

- After the modifications my truck stance is higher. The stock wheels and tires for an F-250 are 17", for an F-350 they are 18". However, sales people will sell 20" wheels to an F-250 buyer and these meet the F-350 rating with properly rated tires. Some F-250s are equipped with the overload spring out of the factory but still say F-250 so the VIN is underrated to keep registration costs lower, keep quotas and be able to make a sale for an owner who only needs an F-250 and not a more expensive F-350.

- Fauch provides many other considerations which is why I say it's important for each owner to know what they have, where they stand and what gains or losses occur if not using the correct equipment and all equipment must interrelate. For example, not all E-rated tires are equal so go by the 3 digit number for the rating. Mine are now rated for 3750 at 18" even though the 17" E-rated (same "E" rating) tires were rated about 3460. But their 3 digit numbers were very different.

The bad news is that I think there is enough information here to achieve what Emmel is trying to point out: The OP is going to need a new truck to be weight compliant! New tires, wheels, differential, springs, supporting hardware for all modifications might be money wasted because this truck may not ever be able to support that Monty.

[ugh]

quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge


The bad news is that I think there is enough information here to achieve what Emmel is trying to point out: The OP is going to need a new truck to be weight compliant! New tires, wheels, differential, springs, supporting hardware for all modifications might be money wasted because this truck may not ever be able to support that Monty.

I agree. However, I plan to hang on the truck for about an year, and then go get a DRW truck. We plan to go on short trips and we live in flat area. The previous owner took that truck and camper all over the country and crossed mountains with it.

[Parts Ed]

There is a clear difference listed on the website between Conventional towing and 5th wheel towing. The only reason I know this is because we go to the website at least once a week for customers wanting to know this info.

[Countryfolks]

Personally, I'd be looking for a good deal and trade that TV off as soon as possible, I see no advantage keeping it any longer than I had to. It's going on 9 years old and been worked hard pulling a RV that's too big for it 'all over the country'. If the original owners didn't have trouble with it already I'd be surprised. It's very frustrating having a breakdown with good equipment, much less with stuff I know is inadequate for the job, short trip or not. Been there, done that.

All of the information given should motivate you to check the laws/regulations in your state if being non-compliant makes you feel uncomfortable. Probably should do it any way [me too ].

[bncinwv]

Long, long ago, I made a pledge to myself and the then members of the forum that I would never contribute information to a "weight" related thread. With that being said, I will simply state that the OP's decision making process only has to pass the muster of the OP. There possibly may be rights and wrongs, my way or the highway contributions, and many other factor's that may have to be taken into consideration or may be discounted as "hearsay". Now with all of that being said, my contribution to this thread can be recorded as..........
Bingo

[Hooker]

quote:Originally posted by bncinwv

...I will simply state that the OP's decision making process only has to pass the muster of the OP...
Bingo

Agree, until he's in an accident, then there will be a whole bunch of folks for whom he'll have to pass muster.

[bncinwv]

quote:Originally posted by Hooker

Agree, until he's in an accident, then there will be a whole bunch of folks for whom he'll have to pass muster.

I would hope that would be part of the decision making process!!

Bingo

[DQDick]

What Bingo said, both times.

[bigskyjimmy]

I have a 99 f350 V10 towing a 3402 rl 12,000 lbs the truck use to have 3.73 gears when i had a 34 ft monty and it did just fine now that I have a 40 fter I did not want to buy a new truck beacause I LOVE the V10 and the truck and it is paid for so I coughed up the 2 grand and got the front and rear gears changed to 4.30 WHAT A DIFFERENCE! I still cannot beat the diesels guys up the pass but WHO CARES! it ain't no race and I do not care about bragging rights, it will make it just fine the V10 is a great reliable low maintaince motor. I do have firestone airbags which are nice and a extra trans cooler GOOD TO GO!!!

[fauch]

summary:
*there are modifications that you can do to gain some peace of mind and confidence when towing within or beyond the capacity of the truck, i.e. springs, tires air bags...gearing
*on longer, broader sighted consideration, i think vin on weight tag and vin on truck will tell the tale if an accident becomes litigious.
* i also think that new certificate of origin may be a route to "legalize" modifications....will the DOT do this... I don't know??? capacities per weight tag have undergone DOT standards approval/testing by FOMOCO and DOT
*i personally will trade my single wheel truck for a dual wheel truck if i buy a trailer heavier than our 2955RL.

[seahunter]

quote:Originally posted by fauch

*i personally will trade my single wheel truck for a dual wheel truck if i buy a trailer heavier than our 2955RL.

I've posted this before, but when I researched it all, the only vehicle that would safely tow the weight range of the Montana I was getting (15.5k) is a one ton dual rear wheel. Even with the DRW one ton, I am just comfortably within weight specs - the limiting factor being the payload. Doesn't matter that the brochure states it will tow 21,500 if the payload (pin weight) is too high you're not within the tow ratings.

[ugh]

How do I figure out the payload of my truck? The pin weight of the trailer is 1850 pounds. My truck is 2004 f250 crew cab XL with GVWR of 8800 pounds. Total weight from my family and other stuff will be close to 600 pounds. What does that leave for payload?

[seahunter]

quote:Originally posted by ugh

How do I figure out the payload of my truck? The pin weight of the trailer is 1850 pounds. My truck is 2004 f250 crew cab XL with GVWR of 8800 pounds. Total weight from my family and other stuff will be close to 600 pounds. What does that leave for payload?

I'll email you an '04 truck guide. First off how did you get your pin weight - brochure? Make sure to actually weigh it because the brochures are notoriously low. In the guide make sure you look up the F250 and the correct engine and gears - and of course the crew cab decreases your payload as does whether it's a 4X4 or not. Then subtract your fuel and family and gear, etc. Basically if you don't have a guide, the gross weight rating minus the weight of the truck itself will give you the carrying capacity or payload.

[ugh]

Looks like my truck is okay with pin weight. The only problem is the GCWR.

I did look at some of the one ton trucks. Do I really need DRW or will one ton SRW will be fine.

[seahunter]

quote:Originally posted by ugh

Looks like my truck is okay with pin weight. The only problem is the GCWR.

I did look at some of the one ton trucks. Do I really need DRW or will one ton SRW will be fine.

I got the camper certification for the F-350 DRW we just got, and the maximum allowable payload weight is 3,727 pounds and the maximum vehicle weight is 13,300. Truck is about 9,000 pounds. This is the highest payload version, even more than the F-450 (due to it's added weight). The brochure states a payload of 5,990 for the Crew Cab 4X4 Long Bed diesel DRW, so you have to be very careful not to always follow the brochure numbers as the difference in my case is huge between brochure of 5,990 and actual payload of 3,727 pounds.

After gear, fuel, and hitch, and depending on what percentage you estimate for pin weight, even with a DRW diesel I am right near the maximum for towing a 15,500 pound Montana. Twenty percent of 15,500 would be 3,100 pounds for pin weight, so it's within capacity but not by much. This only leaves 627 pounds for gear, hitch, etc. This is why I feel if a DRW is that close on being within weight specifications, that anything less than a one ton DRW is not within specs of towing a trailer with a gross weight of 15,500. As some on here will tell you, I didn't necessarily WANT a DRW, but when we picked out the trailer we wanted and saw that it was 15,500 gross, that told us we needed a DRW to to it properly.

[ugh]

quote:Originally posted by seahunter

I got the camper certification for the F-350 DRW we just got, and the maximum allowable payload weight is 3,727 pounds and the maximum vehicle weight is 13,300. Truck is about 9,000 pounds. This is the highest payload version, even more than the F-450 (due to it's added weight). The brochure states a payload of 5,990 for the Crew Cab 4X4 Long Bed diesel DRW, so you have to be very careful not to always follow the brochure numbers as the difference in my case is huge between brochure of 5,990 and actual payload of 3,727 pounds.

After gear, fuel, and hitch, and depending on what percentage you estimate for pin weight, even with a DRW diesel I am right near the maximum for towing a 15,500 pound Montana. Twenty percent of 15,500 would be 3,100 pounds for pin weight, so it's within capacity but not by much. This only leaves 627 pounds for gear, hitch, etc. This is why I feel if a DRW is that close on being within weight specifications, that anything less than a one ton DRW is not within specs of towing a trailer with a gross weight of 15,500. As some on here will tell you, I didn't necessarily WANT a DRW, but when we picked out the trailer we wanted and saw that it was 15,500 gross, that told us we needed a DRW to to it properly.

What year is your truck? I prefer used truck vs. new truck as it is not going to be my daily driver.

[seahunter]

It's a 2012.