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05-28-2023, 10:09 AM
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#1
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Established Member
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: ROME
Posts: 14
M.O.C. #32176
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Suburban sw12delc water heater
Heater will not work on electric. Changed element, 120 volts on both sides of new element, 120 volts on both sides of the thermostat, reset circuit breaker at panel several times. Works fine on gas. Brand new 373RD camper, what am I missing?
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05-28-2023, 12:38 PM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Oro Valley
Posts: 3,724
M.O.C. #20477
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Karl,
There is a troubleshooting guide in the files section of the forum.
The most common issue is turning the heater on without water in the tank which burns out the element. The element is easy to replace, available at most hardware stores and inexpensive.
__________________
Zack and Donna plus Millie and Ranger
2018 3160RL
"Life is too short to stay indoors, enjoy the ride!"
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05-28-2023, 12:39 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 6,967
M.O.C. #6433
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Check the new heating element. With at least one wire removed you should measure about 10 ohms resistance across the two screws. And with power off of course.
How did you place your meter leads to show 120 vac on both sides of the heating element? Did you put a lead on each element screw? Or did you put one lead on case ground and the other lead on each element screw, one at a time?
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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05-28-2023, 03:04 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,400
M.O.C. #24086
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If you have 120vac on BOTH sides of the element, you are missing the ground.
Black wire should have 120vac.
Correction:
White wire should go to NEUTRAL.
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05-28-2023, 05:17 PM
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#5
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Established Member
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: ROME
Posts: 14
M.O.C. #32176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX
Check the new heating element. With at least one wire removed you should measure about 10 ohms resistance across the two screws. And with power off of course.
How did you place your meter leads to show 120 vac on both sides of the heating element? Did you put a lead on each element screw? Or did you put one lead on case ground and the other lead on each element screw, one at a time?
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One lead on case ground and the other lead on each element screw one at a time
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05-28-2023, 06:20 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 6,967
M.O.C. #6433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlwarren
One lead on case ground and the other lead on each element screw one at a time
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In that case I agree with Daryles. The fact you measure 120 vac on both sides says your element is good, but that the neutral side is not connected to neutral. If the neutral wire is tight and looks to be a good connection, i.e. not crimped on the insulation, then you need to look inside the junction box on the side of the water heater (behind the wall). There have been a number of reports of loose and/or burned wires there.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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05-29-2023, 06:56 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Jose
Posts: 522
M.O.C. #6790
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Simple question. Is the switch on the water heater outside, On?
__________________
2006 Montana 3650RK with Improvements.
2014 Ford 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LB Dually & Hadley's.
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05-29-2023, 08:00 AM
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#8
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Established Member
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: ROME
Posts: 14
M.O.C. #32176
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You were 100% correct, discovered that the white wire is not going to ground. Installed a temporary ground wire from the element to a good ground and bingo! Hot water in 30 minutes- thank you for your help!
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05-29-2023, 08:01 AM
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#9
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Established Member
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: ROME
Posts: 14
M.O.C. #32176
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No outside hot water switch
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05-29-2023, 08:44 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 6,967
M.O.C. #6433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlwarren
You were 100% correct, discovered that the white wire is not going to ground. Installed a temporary ground wire from the element to a good ground and bingo! Hot water in 30 minutes- thank you for your help!
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Don't know how you wired the temporary ground wire, but the final fix should have the white wire connected to neutral, not ground. There is a difference. Trailer ground should not be used for 120 vac current flow.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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05-29-2023, 08:59 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,400
M.O.C. #24086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX
Don't know how you wired the temporary ground wire, but the final fix should have the white wire connected to neutral, not ground. There is a difference. Trailer ground should not be used for 120 vac current flow.
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Correct.
I corrected my original post from
"white wire to ground" to
"white wire to NEUTRAL".
It's not a good idea for 120vac to be connected to chassis frame ground. The DC side of your rig uses the frame for ground.
The AC side ground is provided back at the source per code. Same for Neutral.
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05-29-2023, 01:23 PM
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#12
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Established Member
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: ROME
Posts: 14
M.O.C. #32176
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I did not know that, I grounded it to the water heater frame for now. I can't get into camping world (60 miles away) until August. I tried to follow the white wire and it is a mess of wires behind a panel I removed. Does the white wire go back to the switch on the control panel? Will it hurt to use the ground I have until I can get it in for service? Is there anything else I can do to fix this?
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05-29-2023, 02:33 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 6,967
M.O.C. #6433
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Connecting the neutral side of the element to chassis frame causes that 10 amps of 120 vac current to be channeled all the way back thru the trailer frame thru your shore power cord ground wire to the shore power outlet and all the way to wherever the neutral and ground are bonded. That is not good. Just too many things that can go wrong including being a danger of electric shock just by touching the trailer frame under the right conditions.
If there is a way to access the side of the water heater you should see a junction box there where the water heater wiring should be connected to the trailer wiring. That is the best place to connect the white neutral wire. (And most likely where your problem lies). If no easy access to that J box, the next best option would be to run a new temporary white wire from the heating element direct to the neutral bus bar in you circuit breaker power panel. That may take some creative routing to get the wire there. But at least it would be correct and safe.
An option would be call a local RV repair service to come to you and perform the work.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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05-29-2023, 03:23 PM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 2,679
M.O.C. #7992
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Another place to check is the neutral buss in the AC breaker box. Make sure all lugs are tight. While in there do it for the hots, neutrals, and grounds. When we had our rig this was part of my annual de-winterizing routine.
__________________
2006 3000RK
2009 Ram 2500
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05-29-2023, 03:46 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 6,967
M.O.C. #6433
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Jimcol brings up a good point. When ours was still new I checked the power distribution panel and found quite a few screws not properly tightened; hots, neutrals, 12 positive, and grounds.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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05-29-2023, 04:31 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,400
M.O.C. #24086
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@ Karl,
Depending on your model, mine 3130re, the access the back of the water heater and furnace is behind the panel at the bottom of the pantry.
There is a plug coming from the water heater that plugs into a receptacle on the wall.
Those receptacles are known to have wiring NOT punched down into the contacts properly.
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06-03-2023, 04:59 PM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Northville, NY
Posts: 786
M.O.C. #21158
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If you are unable to find a loose neutral solution, I would just run it on gas till you can get it to the dealer under warrantee.
Do not leave the neutral grounded as it can cause a very dangerous hot skin condition described in post #13.
good luck
__________________
Jim B
2017 Lariat F-350 FX4, CC, SB, 6.7 PSD 4WD
2018 MONTY 3731FL, at our private winter site in GA
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06-04-2023, 07:26 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 773
M.O.C. #20949
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Since your WH uses an inside switch to operate in 120 volt AC mode on the backside of the WH located up high you will find a junction box..
Inside that box you will find a relay operated via 12vdc to control the 120 vac circuit to the element and thermostat ..
Inspect the relay for damage and the connections to the relay.. this is where the 120 circuit from the power center circuit breaker is fed to
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