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Old 07-14-2015, 07:14 PM   #1
Art-n-Marge
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About those 6.0 PSD problems

I bought my '06 brand new TV with the Ford Navistar 6.0L engine. Many of you may have read about some problems with that engine that has caused $1000s of repair for some when the weaknesses occur. Unfortunately, I don't have deep pockets to upgrade to the new 6.7L engine which has been getting rave reviews and not just in this forum.

I have over 115,000 miles on my truck even with occasional towing and most recently with the full-timing, more towing than ever. However, I haven't towed far (no more than 100 miles one way every 1 to 3 weeks), with an occasional 400 to 500 miler every 6 months or so. Really not that much compared to many of you and I baby the truck a lot. In fact, I have only towed to Nevada, Arizona and many parts of California and that's it! DW and I just weren't comfortable going much farther knowing the engine was suspect.

I located a shop that seemed like they were familiar and comfortable about what to do with existing 6.0 PSD problems. I just got my truck back from the shop after spending under $2,500 to have work done that is rumored to overcome some of the inherent engine design and operational problems. Hopefully I won't be spending upwards of $6,000 on an unwarranted problem. I've already gone through the factory warranty and a brief extended warranty. Now, I have no warranty and drive like the old man that I am, to avoid problems.

Wish me luck for the future as we continue to full-time. Tomorrow will be my first tow since the work was done. But I'm only going 12 miles. However, DW wants to plan a trip to Oregon and Washington (Hallelujah, more stickers for the RV map) and we hope to do well.

Other things I've done include replacing the weak radiator cap, repaired the fuel module, and rebuilt the Turbo (which were some other known problems). I also use diesel fuel supplements.

Here's hoping for less worry.
 
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:53 PM   #2
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Yeah Art,the 6.0 powersroke and to a lesser extent the 6.4 was a basically good motors plagued with EGR cooler,oil cooler,turbo etc.. from sand left over in the block from the casting process(so they say?) some folks never had a problem some Bad problems BUT they can be made a good reliable motor with some mods and it sounds like you found somebody to keep it running good for many miles to comeAnd ENJOY the Oregon Coast it is AWESOME!!!!,I am in Lincoln City now and headed to Seaside then back to the WA coast,when you are going up the Oregon coast if you can get a spot at Winchester Bay RV JUMP ON IT we spent 3 weeks there and LOVE IT!!!!
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Old 07-15-2015, 01:26 AM   #3
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As you may have read some of my earlier posts, we have had up- grades as well. Just a bit edgy still on getting back into towing. My advice would be to have a good road insurance for the truck & camper; at least for the benefit of towing. We've had more than our share of breakdowns but can't let it get us down. The 6.7 would be nice but can't justify that kind of expense, especially for a new one. We just don't get out with the camper that much.

On edit: Here's hoping that the up-coming trip for the Mid-Atlantic, VA rally will go well.
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:32 AM   #4
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Reminds me of my previous Silverado. It was a 2004 Duramax that was only around for 1 1/2 years before Chevy changed it. On Dieselplace forum there was a thread that was 1800 entries long just on this engine. It was poorly designed to handle heat. As I live in Arizona, that was a bit of a problem. Couldn't leave town going north in the summer (steep hill for 4-5 miles) unless I left early and temp under 80 or so, since on the hills with over 85 or 90 it would overheat.
My current Duramax has seen a temp. rise of a whole 3 degrees max in the last 3 years - what a difference.
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:06 AM   #5
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Art you still need to get rid of EGR and get better head studs. Then you will have a great engine.
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Old 07-15-2015, 06:14 AM   #6
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I think the most important thing to do with the 6.0 is to have some kind of engine monitor to see things before they are a problem. I use an app for an old smartphone I have that has a dock with a suction cup for the windshield. The app is Torque Pro, it cost $5. You also need a Bluetooth adapter that plugs into the OBD2 port. There are fancier ones on the market for a few hundred dollars.

You should be watching the delta, that is the difference between the oil temp and the coolant temp. That will show you the efficiency of the oil cooler and if it needs to be replaced or not. Another thing to watch is the FICM voltage. That is the Fuel Injection Control Module. This should run 48 to 49 volts and never dip below 45. Without being able to see this, the truck will still run when it gets in the low 40's and into the 30's, but it is killing your injectors. Many shops have replace injectors, just to have them wiped out again because of a bad FICM. FICMrepair.com is a wonderful source of information. Keeping the charging systems in good working order helps with the FICM voltage.

Getting rid of the EGR cooler is good because if/when it ruptures, it sends coolant down to the combustion chamber and hydro locks the engine. That is what stretches the head bolts and blows the head gaskets (along with over tuning the engine).

Keeping the coolant clean with a coolant filter is a good idea as well. They can be had for a little of a hundred dollars.

ALWAYS use motorcraft oil and fuel filters. They are made by RACOR and have patents on them. Off brand filters are total junk because they changed the size and a few things on the filters to keep from infringing on the patent. The motorcraft fuel filters are the only ones that have the water membrane built around the large filter.

There is a wealth of knowledge on some of the Ford Truck forums and the like.
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Old 07-15-2015, 10:33 AM   #7
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Had the EGR Cooler Oil Cooler issue with mine, lifted the heads just enough to cause a head gasket problem too. Previous owner traded the truck in and there was sludge in the degas bottle. I didn't know to ask, did know it was there. Wrong type of coolant was added and that caused boiling, fouling and a burst cooler.

Had the whole thing taken care of. Upgraded EGR and Oil cooler, OEM head gaskets and ARP studs. Except for the Studs, the engine is pretty close to stock. I run an Edge Insight Juice with Attitude module. Work was done in 2010. Here we are in 2015. been to Washington DC 3 Times, Acadia every year, Iowa, Virginia, Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York.... all over New England and beyond.

My 6.0 PSD is a great running truck.

We are headed to Acadia again the second week of August and down to Charleston South Carolina at the end of September. I also have Torque Pro and like that as well. Though I can't run the Edge and Torque at the same time. Torque intercepts the signal before it gets to my Edge tuner.
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Old 07-15-2015, 12:52 PM   #8
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Put 80000 tow miles on our 2005 6.0 and never had an issue. Totally stock
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:05 AM   #9
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Bought our '06 three and a half years ago after reading a lot of negatives on the Internet. The one series of posts I found telling was by a retired Ford engine assembler who wrote about putting new blocks on engine stands and having silicate casting sand fall out when they were rotated to install stuff. The consensus was that the EGR, oil cooler, head bolts, coolant and whatever problems were only symptoms caused by left over silicate clogging small tubes up. Since International made hundreds of thousands of this engine for school buses that never had any problems like Ford pickups did, I felt this to be correct.

Since the truck I bought only had 29k miles on it and I got it for REAL good price, I signed the paper work and took it to a place that power flushed the coolant system. Then I added a coolant filter. It's just rolled over 49k miles with about 12 - 14k towing our Monty. Only problems have been with the AC and the vacuum generator motor (why is it that all the little odd parts cost between $150 and @200???), otherwise it's been flawless. Also put new tires on it before we took our 6k mile vacation last year - didn't trust 9 year old shoes. We're leaving in a couple of weeks on another long trip - this time to Northern CA - and the truck is the last thing I'm concerned with.
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:32 AM   #10
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Part of why the school buses never had a problem they don't put out nearly as much power as the Ford trucks. They don't have enough power to hurt their selves. When you add power cylinder pressure goes way high and you lift the head by stretching the too small head bolts.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:55 AM   #11
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1retired06 - my truck didn't statt having problems until after 100,000 miles (fuel module) and I try to take it real easy, Now with 117,000 and getting this work done, I hope it goes so much farther. I'm not wishing or trying to jinx you, but trying to raise awareness.

As for you others, thanks for the advice and testimonials. The work also included oil and coolant flushes. The only reminder of the work, is the smell. There's a residual industrial chemical smell from the work done. I hope this goes away in a few days or it's back to the shop to figure that out. It seems to be dissipating, but in the meantime, thank heavens for the recirc mode on the A/C.
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:17 PM   #12
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I Would like to know if anybody that has had these mods done to the 6.0 engine that has had a history of problems,been able to document more than 50,000 trouble free miles, or more than 100,000 miles etc. this would include any other engine problems also. Tell me how many miles you have since the Mods. I would love to think I can keep my old truck going strong just have a hard time trusting it.
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Old 07-17-2015, 01:42 AM   #13
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As of today, mine is still just under 50k with no engine problems and only a coolant filter. Let you know if anything happens on our next long trip come October - should be around 56 or 57k then.
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Old 07-17-2015, 08:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mlh

Part of why the school buses never had a problem they don't put out nearly as much power as the Ford trucks. They don't have enough power to hurt their selves. When you add power cylinder pressure goes way high and you lift the head by stretching the too small head bolts.
Lynwood
Hate to disagree with you, but school bus versions are pretty much the same power rating, but they don't have to have emissions things like pickups or oil coolers to keep running under really bad conditions. Compression ratios on diesels are always much, much higher than gassers, since they cause ignition of the fuel-air mixture by extreme compression and not a spark. (Those glow plugs are just there to get the thing running and then they do nothing.) I believe the clogged EGRs and oil coolers, and stretched head bolts are really symptoms and not causes. Once the first two happen, engine internals will overheat and all kinds of things will happen.
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Old 07-17-2015, 08:55 PM   #15
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I agree with Walt. The work I had done is supposed to improve things so that the symptoms don't occur. I'll keep posting as necessary. The purpose is to inform that improvements are potentially out there. I can't speak about any other engine but the 6.0 PSD. Tendencies of failure and weaknesses exist in all truck components. We just all need to stay aware.
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Old 07-18-2015, 02:08 PM   #16
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The 6L PSD was Fords name for the International VT365 engine. It had 175 - 230 HP and 460 - 620 pound feet of TK.
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Old 07-18-2015, 04:46 PM   #17
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mlh is correct. I drove one of those busses and it had 185,000 miles on it.
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Old 07-22-2015, 08:17 AM   #18
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Some believe the TTY (Torque To Yield) bolts were not step torqued correctly at initial assembly on some engines. That is hard to prove as the only way to know would be from suspecting there was some sort of leak by loss of coolant or pressurization / venting of the degas bottle (>16 PSI). Under normal driving conditions (very much like my issue) the problem would not manifest itself until the engine was under load. The head gasket was compromised at the outside of cylinder 7.

Additionally, there were some engines that had casting sand remaining in them and it was a crap shoot on which ones did or didn't. The TTY bolts, step torqued correctly work just fine on the 6.0 PSD. However, silica drop out and/or casting sand caused blockage resulting burst EGR coolers which dumped coolant into the engine. That coolant immediately flashed off into steam causing and instantaneous over-pressure, stretching the TTY bolts, and lifting the heads. Extreme cases of EGR Cooler failure resulted in hydro-lock of the engine due to amount of coolant dropped into it.

Several methods were used to prevent this. One was an EGR delete. Most states don't do emissions on these trucks and the EGR delete would not be inspected. However many states have laws about tampering with vehicle emission systems and of late some states are cracking down on modified vehicles. If a state does start inspecting these trucks emissions those people who have modified their vehicles are going to be spending some money putting catalytic converters, mufflers, EGR Coolers, EGR Valves, etc.

I chose to fix mine by replacing the EGR cooler with one made by Sinister Diesel. The tubes inside it are made of stainless steel and are much less likely to burst. The Ford head gasket is a good and a new set of them went in, the TTY bolts, do the job, but if there was another EGR Cooler failure, they would not stand the over pressure, so they were swapped out for ARP studs.

Everything else is stock except for the Edge Insight.

The original problem with mine happened at 54,000 miles, 6 years old, so out side of the 5 year / 100,000 mile warranty.

I now have 152,546 miles on my truck with nothing but tire rotations, oil changes, and car washes on it. Most of those miles are towing an RV.

Eric
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Old 07-22-2015, 08:34 AM   #19
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Thanks Eric. The 6L is a fine engine if you correct the things you wright about. I liked mine better stock than my 6.4 and way better than my 7.3.
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Old 07-22-2015, 09:39 AM   #20
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Sorry about the grammar! I am at work and was speed typing!! I am NOT a typist!!!
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