8.1 Allison? - Montana Owners Club

dsprik · 01-21-2006, 03:19 AM

I need a tv and I am running into a few 8.1/Allison Chevy 2500HDs (4x4). Could someone please fill me in on these as a tv - mileage towing and non-towing, power (ft/lbs), etc? This is obviously a less expensive unit.

SAndreasen · 01-21-2006, 03:32 AM

I know that I have a TT instead of a 5er but I LOVE my 8.1/Allison combo. I have tolook into the mirrors to check to see if the TT is still there. Lots of power and plenty of ft-lbs. I have a camping friend from around here that has the same 2500 HD (but the crew cab) with an 8.1/Allison and he pulls a Challenger 5er with it and he loves his. Granted don't get the mileage of a Deramx but gas is now cheaper so works out about the same $$ plus you can buy alot of gas of the difference in the org. costs differences. I get about 13-15 mph solo and about 8-10 towing. I know that to each his own so I'm not putting down the Deramaxs just stating my choice. Good luck on your selection. (Country Gal I think has an 8.1/Allison combo with a 5er)

richfaa · 01-21-2006, 03:53 AM

Well Dave I think you know what I will say on the subject..You need to determine how you will use your TV. My general criteria..Will you drive 25/30K miles or more a year...will you keep the TV for 5 years or more..will you be pulling heavy load up steep grades on a regular basis. If our use met that criteria We would have purchsed a Diesel..It did not..we went with the V-10 F-350 Ford..One more criteria and perhaps the most important..does the additional cost of motor and maint fall within your spending /debt limits. When our travel does meet that criteria and IF having a diesel is still cost effective in ALL areas..not JUST MPG.. we will get one...

CountryGuy · 01-21-2006, 03:56 AM

Countryguy has that combo,

We are happy with it, we get about 7 towing, between 10 and 11.5 in tow solo, xpressway gets a bit more (Al says about 14). It hauls, ohhhh, it hauls! The Allison is fab!!!! LOVE IT! (And, this is Carol talking about the Allison

)

If we ever go fulltiming, he says we will have a diesel. We got this one 0 percent financing! and won't move to another truck till this one is paid off, that's for sure! HAHA.

We like most everything about it, cept

1.) Mirrors on the 03 even tho they have that motor and go out, ICKYYYY. If they were mounted 90 degrees from where they are, they would be much better. (Friends with Dodge mirrors, lock em up, Carol WANTS THOSE!!!)

2.) The center console, STINKS, opens from the side, horrible for the passenger, storage capacity ok tho.

3.) Heat, air conditioning and recirculating systems have controls that we are STILL trying to figure out, have to get the danged book out and the recirculate is substandard in our opinion (Previous truck was a Ford and it had GREAT controls and the recirculate REALLY worked good!!!)

Ride is great, specially with the Bilsteins.

Over all, we have to say we are pretty pleased with 8.1 Allison and Montana 3295RK.

wswebster · 01-21-2006, 05:19 AM

We have the "04 8.1 allison crewcab and it pulls our "06 3400rl great. Had a 315rls before and now husband say we should of got a 5th wheel sooner. He can see the entire trailer now and loves the power mirrors. We have always been chevy truck people. Gas mileage is as stated above 8 towing and 10 regular. If you watch your speed that helps too. I've heard the maintence on diesel engines costs more.

richfaa · 01-21-2006, 07:10 AM

Can't give numbers on towing the 3400 with the F-350 V-10 because we have not done that yet We get a 13 to 14.5 non towing with only 4600 miles on the truck Drove it to camper world last week and did 14.6 on the round trip. I think the V-10 which is a 6.8 l vs the 8.1 l of the chevy might get a wee bit better MPG but not enough, to me , to be a determining factor. We expect to get 8 to 10MPG(except in WVA.) You will just have to do what is best for you.... I SAY AGAIN .We don't even like to discuss MPG..they are ALL really bad..gas or diesel..If MPG is a inhibitor you have taken up the wrong pass time. Try Golf at a course near you and get a Honda Civic(I have one) but it will not budge the 3400...

SAndreasen · 01-21-2006, 03:02 PM

Boy do I agree with Rich! If you are really concerned about mileage you picked the wrong life style-RVing! My miata gets 30 mpg but it can't move the TT! What Rich says about your driving wants & wishs is true as compared to your $s.

dsprik · 01-21-2006, 05:09 PM

Mileage??? What did I say to get someone off on that? I'm not whining about mileage - I want to know the difference between the two engine types. Sorry if I gave that impression.

I am concerned (greatly) about VALUE. I just wanted to find out all the info on the 8.1 Allison compared to the Duramax - or any other brand of diesel. I guess diesel vs gas - all aspects. What I don't want to do is get a 8.1 at $7K-$8K less than an otherwise identically equipped (w/ same miles) diesel, and then say, "What was I thinking!"

Maybe this will help you understand what I trying to ask:

AutoTraders.com: 2003 Chevy 2500HD LT CC 4x4 8.1/Allison w/ 28,771 miles = $23,997 w/ new fiberglass cap.

AutoTraders.com: 2003 Chevy 2500HD LT CC 4x4 Duramax/Allison w/ 105,486 miles = $23,900 (no cap)

I believe a D/A 2003 LT would run OVER $30K w/ the same miles (~30K) on it as this 8.1 above has - right?

Yes... I know a diesel engine will last longer than a gas - generally. What I want to know is average cost per year - maintenance & gas compared to each other w/ the same annual mileage put on the tv. I can tell you right now that if I can get a adequate tv for a $150/mo less, I'm doing it. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something that will boost my cost and wipe out this $150/mo - or even $100/mo advantage.

OK... use this example: N MI in same CG from May 1 to Nov 1 w/ a few short (100 mile) trips to some favorite N. MI CGs (one trip to Manitoba for one of these months in the middle of the summer). NC for 1 month. Orlando, 1 month. Las Vegas, one month. RGV for 2 months. TV used as daily driver (maybe 30K/yr total).

If you are pinching pennies, which is better - and why. I would like to know if someone has done any cost analysis in this area.

Sorry again to get people distracted by mileage concerns. I must have not typed what I was thinking... happens occassionally...

And you know, Rich... air bags may help your Honda?

Oh... and PLEASE don't tell that 8.1 uses PREMIUM (91-93 octane) gas...

Montana Sky · 01-21-2006, 06:22 PM

Well Dave,
If your mileage on the 03 trucks you are using as an example is correct, I think the Duramax proves its value. An 8.1L w/28K miles and a Duramax w/ 103K for roughly the same price. I think you see what I am thinking. When it comes to cost of maintenance, I can tell you oil changes run me approx. $50 b/c of the 10quarts of oil and filter. Might be easiest to take a trip to your local GM dealership and talk with the service guys. Ask them for a maintenance plan for both the gas and diesel motor. If memory is right the Allison and diffs are on the same schedule for both trucks, so the higher cost of oil changes is going to be your biggest cost difference, of course as well as MPG towing and empty.

Parrothead · 01-21-2006, 06:45 PM

Not to mention the trade in value of the diesel. And the fact the diesel last longer.

gkbutler · 01-22-2006, 12:14 AM

Dave,
We aren't pinching pennies, but we do have to watch our spending. I had looked at diesels before, but never seriously considered getting one for a variety of factors. When we decided we were going to full time, I knew I needed either an 8.1 or a diesel for the towing capacity. Checked both out, and bought the Duramax. Haven't looked back. Our maintenance is also about $50.00 for the oil change. Since we have roosted for the winter, don't get the oil changed every six weeks. That is nice on the pocketbook!!

Unfortunately, we have to look at MPG strictly because of the cost of fuel. Fuel costs run about $200.00 per month.

CountryGuy · 01-22-2006, 01:40 AM

Yep, ya gotta factor in the MGP and how many miles you will be driving. If you are getting, say 7 towing with gas, and you are getting 10.5 with diesel when towing, that means something at different prices for fuel. If ( HA HA HA ) the price of gas and diesel were exactly the same you could figure that pretty easy, eh?? But, you can figure it with different pricing too. Figure you are gonna drive 250 miles one day from point A to point B. Figure it with prices that reflect todays market prices. Then figure it with the market prices we saw just after, say, Katrina, there were several threads here at MOC where people were posting prices. Go back find one of those and play with the numbers. Something to keep you occupied for a couple of hours.

Our 8.1 has that computer stuff, tells you engine oil life, etc. We thought, haha, nope, gonna stick with the ole 3000 miles, change the oil standard. Well, we attended a information seminar at our dealer and the guy talking about this particular subject was a guy that had been changing oil for a LONG time, I think he was also interested in race cars and such. He was well qualified to discuss the subject. He said when he first saw this computer system, his reaction was what ours was, haha, nope, don't believe it. But, that after observing a LOT of cars/trucks with the system, and attending classes and all that kind of stuff, he was convinced that the computer actually worked pretty good. That is the short rendition of a long presentation. Soooo, Al says, ok, this baby is warranteed. Lets go for it. Our GMC is used MORE for towing, than for day use. If we are back in Tipton, it does not get driven a lot. So, it is getting used hard when we use it, pulling ole Montana around. We get about 4000 to 5000 on a oil change, NO problem and we are still not using the full "engine" life that the little computer says we can. Moral of this long tirade?? Oil changes don't happen in the Stevens household as frequently as they used to, aka, we don't spend as much coin on them!! Another thing to put into the forumla for how much is it gonna cost!

We use regular 87 octaine in ours, not premium.

As said before, if we ever go full time, Al will trade for a diesel.

We are also covered (for another couple of months anyway) by warranty from factory. No repair bills that way.

Cannot think of any other ongoing expenses we have, cept, the dreaded insurance! But, then, the coffee ain't brewed yet.

kdeiss · 01-22-2006, 01:45 AM

I read an article a few years back that compaired diesel/Gas if price of fuel the same the break even point was like 90,000 miles.Keep in mind the 8.1 will do the job with no problem we love ours

wswebster · 01-22-2006, 04:50 AM

We agree with Kdeiss on break even point. And we only burn 87 octane.
I think the oil changes cost half as much as a diesel engine. I drive the truck to work as I only work 7 mi. from home and my husband drives a more effiecient vehicle for work as he sometimes needs to drive a 100 miles every few days.

richfaa · 01-22-2006, 05:31 AM

You know Dave it is really hard to get a accurate comparison because everyone uses their Tv is a different manner. I have read enough comparisons to be satisfied that the break even point between Gas/diesel is 80 or 90K..everything being equal.The number MAY have narrowed because of the increaseing gap beteen Gas/ diesel fuel. That is why in my "criteria" I say..will you drive 25/30K miles a year or more.I will say this without reservation..IF we were doing 25/30K miles or more a year AND if the cost fell within our Spending limits WE WOULD HAVE A DIESEL. I also would have little reservation about buying a USED diesel with 60/70/80K on it IF i knew it had been properly maintained and cared for.Therein lays the problem we did look for a used diesel..I was a big fan of the Ford 7.3L but just about all of them had been used as construction vehicles.Took several to the diesel guys at the bus garage for checks and they vetoed all of them.. I mention MPG because most folks use that as THE reason for diesel over gas..and I say it is A reason and most likely the WORST reason.

Montana Sky · 01-22-2006, 01:22 PM

Dave,
When it comes to amount of oil changes and mileage intervals, go with what makes you most comfortable. I still change my oil every 3000 miles, although this past trip to Nashville and back was 5500 miles. Since I was not towing I figured I would watch the oil life gauge and test it out. I ended up running 6000 miles on that oil and the tech said it looked really good, had nothing to be alarmed with and the computer said I had 45% of my oil life left when I changed it. My truck is 2 years old already and I have 45,120 miles on it so I guess in another 2 years I will be over the 90,000 break even point. The comments already posted are very good and will give you something to think about. My truck is my daily driver and tow vehicle so I knew I wanted the diesel because of the mpg difference. Best of luck finding a tv that will fit your needs.

richfaa · 01-22-2006, 02:41 PM

The transpotation supervior at the school I drive for does a complete oil and filter change on the Diesels every 5,000 miles . 5k miles means oil and filter change every 2 months.Those are @75% hispeed miles and 25% city miles. They are international diesels with real navistar motors.

dsprik · 01-22-2006, 05:49 PM

I just spent some time in GR with my cousin, who is the Sparta Chevrolet used car mgr. He said he had a line on a Ford 7.3 diesel w/ ~60K or 70K on it. Rich, I'm glad you posted that when you did. Very timely. Doesn't mean I won't get a good one, but I agree with you 100% on their prior use. Especially if it's from Northern Mich area (you know the joke: Two seasons - Contruction and January). I will have a qualified diesel mechanic check it thoroughly, if he gets it in.

I really like dealing with Dave Smith Motors in Idaho, but I have a logistics problem as need to trade two vehicles in for this tv (unless someone wants to outright buy my 2000 Park Ave with 175K on it for $5k). So I will probably end up trading locally, even though Dave Smith can give me the best deal by far.

Fordzilla · 01-23-2006, 01:54 AM

I may be a little bias as I drive a diesel. But look back at the 2500 diesel vs. 2500 gas prices after the diesel was over the 90k break even point and imagine what the 8.1 or a v10 ford for that matter would be worth if it had over 90k on the clock. I don't knock anyone who owns a gasser as I have owned a few myself. Just trying to throw out a few more statistics to think about. The 8.1 is still a heck of a lot of motor. And I have heard it many times "There is no substitute for cubic inches"

dsprik · 01-23-2006, 05:06 AM

I'm considering the 8.1/Allison strictly for the short term economics. Monthly payments. I obviously would love to go out and buy a 2006 3500 D/A CC 4x4 LT LB (not DRW, though). But then we would have to live in a tent... My money is going into our "new house": 2006 3400RL, Mor/Ryde, new cap, etc

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