Blown tire update.

[sreigle]

You have been busy, Virgil! Great info. Thanks for posting it.

[Montana_2957]

Virgil, thanks for all that good information. That certainly reinforces what I am finding also.

Dave, thanks for the post on the Titan blowout. Guess they are not perfect either. So it looks like Titan and Carlisle both make 15 inch load E tires so I will look at both before deciding. At my trailer GVWR with load E, I can run them at 70 PSI cold with plenty of cushion on the weight which will have them running about 80 PSI when running hot down the road.

[Richard]

Well, this is a timely thread for me. We just had another blowout...the second on our OEM Tacoma tires that came with our 3400 RL.

I wrote a message here some months back about my reservations concerning the apparent sidewall "softness" when backing the unit into a site and dragging the front axle set sideways. But I've had some trouble accessing the website here to see the responses, as we only have internet access by cell phone, and I can't find the message now.

Stiles, our Montana's first blowout happpened to the original owner of our 2004 3400RL and it caused some damage that he didn't fix before he sold it to us. I was able to fix the minor problems and the cosmetics so that they are no longer noticeable.

The SECOND Tacoma tire blow out happened because I didn't take my own good advice and DUMP these turkey's!

Honestly, the only reason you can tell it USED to be a tire, is that the tire bead is still stuck around the rim! The tire came apart like black confetti on the roadway.

I've been doing some reading and the only tire I like so far (in the 16 inch wheel size) is the Goodyear G614RST. It's a G load rating but more importantly, it's built with stiff sidewalls for high vertical sideloads. It's a commercial tire and is regroovable(sp?) so the high cost (about $180/ea.) may be less important over time.

As a former auto tech, I can't stress the importance of sidewall strength enough in preventing catastrophic failure like the lump of rubber sitting outside out rig right now.

It really worries me that Keystone (arguably one of the biggest outfits in rv'ing) still hasn't heard the enormous number of complaints regarding catastrophic blowouts in these cheap light truck tires that are OEM on the various trailers they make. It's even worse for the 15" wheel owners.

Don't get me wrong....I'm extremely pleased with our beautiful Montana, and the 3400 layout is the envy of nearly everyone we show it to.....but the safety factor is critical when, like us, we're towing the Montana with our entire family, and have a tire grenade like this one did.

What good is it, having a $50,000 truck pull a trailer that is rolling on about $400 total, in Chinese rims and tires? If the trailer rolls, these great hitches we buy won't let loose and we'll go right over with it! I've seen pictures of exactly this scenario.

If you have a second, do a search on "G614RST" over on rv.net. I couldn't find any matches here, but I'm not sure that I'm able to get complete search results here for some reason.

Richard

[sreigle]

Richard, since you mentioned "light truck tires" I take it yours are LT rather than ST? What psi do you run in them, out of curiosity? Ours are ST and we've had problems with them, too. This picture sounds like what you have. This was a Goodyear Marathon ST tire on our '99 Jayco Eagle fifthwheel.

[SRD]

I really appreciate the info on this thread. It has really helped me with future purposes. Virgil, thanks for the links, they were helpful. I've been busy working the past few nights and haven't been on the MOC so playing catch up. Can't say enough about this site. Thanks again. Steve

[Richard]

Hi Steve,

Yes, our 04 3400RL OEM tires are LT Tacomas. I always run maximum pressure on the tires. They don't develop full load carrying capacity until the max pressure.

That said, I don't always check them every time we change campgrounds, but it happened that I had checked them the morning of the blowout and torqued the wheel lugs on both the truck and the Monty (not that it matters in this case).

I also have a temperature gun (infrared thermometer) that is useful (if you use it, I didn't that day...doh) for checking tire heating. I got the idea from a trucker I talked to, and he said it's good for checking the sidewall temperature on the shade side and poking underneath the trailer for the inside sidewall on the sunny side (to avoid the sun heating and skewing the measurement)

I'm surprised to see the Goodyear Marathon failure in your picture. I was thinking of getting that tire before finding the Unisteel on their webpage. I guess that's not much better than what I have, eh?

I also forgot to mention that on mine, the tire was so new that the moulding flash was still hanging on in some places. I'd estimate less than 4000 miles on these tires before grenading. Not good.

Richard

[Montana_2957]

For those interested in ST 225/75 15 inch Load E tires. My local tire dealer, whose opinion I respect, suggested I check out Denman Tire Corporation (www.denmantire.com) for the above tire, and they make them. Another company which has been around a while, but I have never heard of them. So, there appears to be ST 225/75 15 inch tires in load E available from TITAN, CARLISLE, and DENMAN. There may be others?

[Gary n Linda]

I've read through these and many other posts about the tire problems. Thankfully I've not had any problems. I have a 2002 2850RK with the Generals on it. They are the 235/85R16s. This unit is not as heavy as most of you have and it has the 16 inch load range E tires on it. The one thing I do is check air pressure every 2 weeks and when I,m on the road I do a walk around inspection every time I stop.
With all the talk about the different load range tires I've have not seen anyone mention anything about wheels. The wheels also have a load rating and maximum pressure rating. I've looked at my wheels and I can't find either markings on the wheels. A lot of these type wheels have a rating of only 65psi. Especially on the 15 inch. I would be real nervous about putting too high a pressure in these wheels.
I don't know everything about this subject who can? I own an automotive and truck repair shop and we sell alot of tires and wheels. The one thing that is talked about quite alot in this business is how many wheels are over loaded and over inflated. After saying all that I've never seen any fail. I've also tried to find ST tires in 16 inch but can't seem to find any. Most tire failures I've seen have been due to underinflation.

[Richard]

Hi Gary,

I have to agree with you. As I mentioned in my previous post, I would guess that the Chinese wheels AND rims on our rig probably set Montana back about $400 a set in OEM quantities. Maybe more, but they're not a high $$ priority item like.....say wooden cabinets seem to be?

But here we are, driving these expensive rigs with equally expensive trucks and the weakest link in accident avoidance seems to be the OEM wheels and tires...at least to me.

I'm pondering going to the Goodyear G rated 16" for my rig, but that of course comes at a "cost" of higher tire pressure. I looked into new rims, but have come back with $500/ea. retail from what I've seen.

I may just go with the G-rated tires (because a commercial tire is going to me give a good night's sleep) and just fill them to 90 or 100 pounds. Their max pressure is 110psi, but I don't need the extra load capacity as much as the durability.

I've never seen a wheel come apart either, except when creamed by direct force in an accident. In that situation, a flat tire is the least of your problems.

It's a shame that we have to weigh these equally unpleasant options on 40-80,000 dollar vehicles.

Richard

[lightningjack11]

I am using 15 inch ST towmasters load range D (2540) on the Montana.

I have now replaced all of them with the same brand and will stick to where I am successful. Never a blowout on the trailer but had one on my new generals on the truck. Although the Generals were new they just didn't look right and always were bumpy. So I replace them with Firestone steeltex. Besides one blowout while towing on a freeway convinces you to change brands.

I replaced the Towmasters even though the tread did not have much wear. I know they weaken with age and didn't want to be a tester of tires. I plan to replace them again so that I don't exceed four years from the date of mfgr.

Towmasters are made in Canada and they are owned by a Chinese company.

[sreigle]

Richard, I, too, use an infrared thermometer, usually when we stop at a rest stop while on the road. Sometimes I'm in a hurry to get to the facilities and forget to check the tires. I normally just check the outside, even on the sun side. I got to where I know what is a normal range and just look for anything unusual. Or if one tire is considerably hotter than its neighbor. I don't check pressure every time we hit the road when we're traveling and just overnighting. I figure the act of checking pressures itself lets a bit of pressure out. I check before leaving after being in a park for awhile. If I notice a tire looks a little low while at a rest stop or when overnighting then I'll check it.

I also use the infrared thermometer on the rims to see if there's any unusual heat from the brakes or wheelbearings. I can tell from that we have one wheel with the brakes set a slight bit tighter than the others. It runs a couple of degrees warmer every time I check it but not enough to worry about.

Gary, are the rim ratings on the outside or inside? I had the impression they're on the inside but haven't looked for them. Our Goodyear Marathons are load range D, not E, but are in a size that is sufficiently rated for the axle ratings. I don't recall the exact number but it's over 3,000 lbs each. However, if we replace all five some day I will go to E or the new G tires you mentioned. I might have to change rims although I'd bet these rims will handle 80psi since almost all other Montanas came with LR E tires. I will have to check that, though. So far, our tires have gone defective (usually belt breakage or separation) before wearing out the tread. Or, in a couple of cases, they wore out the inside edge (before axles were replaced) and got replace one or two at a time. I don't like mixing brands so stayed with the Goodyears. If I ever need to replace all at the same time, then I'll switch. The current marathons are wearing nicely but the axles were replaced and aligned last October. We've put about three or four thousand miles on the tires since then but they had mileage on them prior to that, too.

Richard, here's another of our Goodyear Marathons. This one also was replaced under warranty, prorated to tread remaining.

[stiles watson]

Richard,

If you go back to page 1, last entry, of this thread, you will see the load rating for the "G" is 3750 lbs at 110 psi. However, the rating is still 3500 lbs at 100 psi. If I keep my G's at 100 lbs, they collectively support 14,000 lbs. This gives me a "sleep well" margin of safety on these stronger walled trailer tires. The reason I use 100 psi instead of 90 psi is to reduce the flex factor which is the enemy of highly loaded tires.

I guess time will tell if I am making the right choices. I would greatly prefer not to have another $800.00 blowout (repairs) plus a new set of tires.

[sreigle]

Us having tires that defy the conventional wisdom of the max weight ratings of load range D tires was driving me nuts so I crawled under the slide to confirm.

Ours are Goodyear Marathon, ST235/80R16, Load Range D, max weight rating 3,000 lbs at 65 psi.

[Montana_2957]

Steve, this tire business continues to confuse. I see that your Marathon ST235/80 R16 Load Range D is Max rated 3,000 lbs at 65 psi which is considerably higher than a Load Range D in ST225/75 R15 which is Max rated 2,540 lbs at 65 psi. Load load range E in 15 inch is 2,830 lbs. So a load range D in 16 inch appears closer to a load range E in 15 inch. Or put another way, looks like those of you running Load range D in 16 inch are better off than those of us running load range E in 15 inch! Guess one has to go by the numbers on the tires and not the letters. Why do these tire guys do that!!??

[Richard]

Don, yes, it's the sidewall info that is considered that last word in load capacities and inflation info, etc.

Stiles, you're right about the load ratings, and I ordered the Goodyear G614RST G rated 16 inch tires today from Walmart for about $170/ea. It was the best deal I could find here near kerrville. Nobody seems to have these puppies in stock, so I ordered 5 of them just in case I do have trouble and need a replacement while finding a "spare".

Good discussion......thanks.

[sreigle]

I don't have a clue but here's the chart I was looking at:



It is located at http://www.goodyear.com/rv/products/..._marathon.html

[stiles watson]

Steve,

We are talking about apples and oranges here. The highest, heavist rated tire on your chart is a class D tire. A class D tire is an eight ply tire. A class E rated tire is a ten ply tire. A class G rated tire is a 14 ply tire. My new set of tires are ST 235/85R 16 Load Range G.- Maximum single load: 3750 lbs @ 109 psi (cold).

The OEM tires on my rig were LT 235/85R 16 Load Range E - Maximum single load: 3042 lbs @ 80psi (cold). These tires lasted less than 3 years and less than 10,000 miles. Since I expect better and longer service from my tires, I have chosen to move to 14 ply tires.

Goodyear is a good tire company as far as I know. If you want to compare apples to apples, explore Goodyear load range E and G tires. As Goodyear stated in the chart,the ST 235/80R 16, Load Range D, are load rated at 3000 lbs @ 65 psi. As far as the statement that Goodyear makes concerning the suitability of their load C and D range tires, all I can say is, based on my own experience and study of the matter, they are not suitable for my Montana. Tire failure can occur because of underinflation and/or overloading. A four tire total weight of 12,000 lbs is too close to the edge for my blood.

Everyone must decide for themselves about this tire size and rating issue. For me I feel better and safer with the 14 ply tires @ 100 psi which purports to carry a single tire load of 3500 lbs. My rim size (85, not 80) is not in the chart that you so graciously provided.

Be safe all....

[steves]

Based on the Goodyear chart the G seems to be the best

Unisteel® G614 RST®
DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO HANDLE THE DEMANDS OF TRAILER APPLICATIONS

Shallow tread provides even wear and reduces running temperatures for casing toughness
Solid, rounded shoulder ribs increase rib stability to promote even wear
Premium casing and mold shape design are tough and highly retreadable
Rib edge sipes and lateral grooves deliver traction
Permits towing applications
Load Inflation Tables | Warranty | Size Conversion Chart




This tire is suitable for Class 5th Wheel and Travel


Tire Size Load Range Sidewall Tread Depth (32s) Apprvd. Rim Widths Meas. Rim Width New Tire Width Outside Diameter Max Load at Infla. (PSI) Single

*LT235/85R16 G 12 6.50 9.5 30.7 3750@110



*This tire requires a special high load capacity wheel andhigh pressure tire valve. Consult wheel manufacturer for proper application.
Steel/Steel Construction

[sreigle]

All good points, Stiles. But my response was to dgullick's post where we were talking about weight ratings for the different load ranges and I pointed out my D tires are rated above what is 'normal' for LR D tires. We seem to have several conversation threads going on. Sorry if I confused the issue. I have no arguments whatsoever about the E and G tires. When I someday need to replace all of our tires it will be with either E or G (did they skip the F rating?). The D's match the axle rating and that's 'enough' to meet the requirements. When I replace it will be with higher rated tires but the axle would still be the limiting factor. Since our weight on the axles/tires right now is 11,060, we have almost a thousand pounds of cushion. So, I'm not at all uncomfortable with whether these tires carry sufficient rating, if that makes any sense. Nevertheless, I will move to heavier tires when these wear out, assuming they don't blow or go defective one at a time and force me to buy the same tire again, as has been the history with these tires (hmmm, maybe Goodyear has built in this new marketing strategy ).

[stiles watson]

I think this has been a great discussion of the tire issue. I want to thank all of you for participating. Your contributions have caused me to study the field more arduously than I ever intended. It has been very helpful.