tow vehicle questions

[Entoman]

Hi Everyone,
I have a 2018 2500 4wd chevy silverado (gas) with the towing package and 4.11 gears.

in looking at fifth wheel campers for my transition into being mobile in the winter and spending a fair amount of time traveling from state to state for work and pleasure
the fifth wheel camper I like is a Montana 3400RL it seems to have the space and layout that is needed

I would prefer it to be a triple axle, but can live with a 2 axle, but am concerned that my tow truck might not be up to snuff. I have a 2000 chevy 454 1 ton dually but it isnt nearly as comfortable as the 18 silverado what is the collective wisdom?

thanks
Entoman

[DQDick]

You're going to have to do the math, but I would be surprised, if when fully loaded, your pin weight doesn't exceed both the truck capacity and the tire capacity on the 2500. If it were me, I'd travel with the dually.

[WeBeFulltime]

It's my opinion that you have two choices. Either upgrade your truck to a 1 Ton DIESEL SRW or Dually OR you can lower your expectations and consider a much lighter travel trailer. It's best to buy the camper first and then buy an acceptable tow vehicle. I made that mistake myself and had to upgrade the truck from 3/4 Ton to 1 Ton. Your 454 dually won't pass many gas stations without stopping while towing the 3400RL.

[432bartman]

I looked up the specs on your 2500. CC, 4x4, 2500, 6.0 with a 4:10 gear. Max payload is 3,093 lbs., max 5th wheel towing is 14,200 lbs. Looking at the specs for a 2013 3400RL, it says the dry weight is 12,589 lbs., hitch weight is 2,140 lbs., and GVWR is 15,640 lbs. It doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room if you were to max out the payload capacity of the trailer, which is 3,051 lbs. I looked up the specs on your year of dually and it says max 5th wheel is 13,500lbs, but the payload is 3,988 lbs.

[JABURKHOLDER]

My initial thought was, stick with the dually. After looking up some weight/capacity numbers on both trucks and the Montana, I don't think either truck will work.
The information below is garnered from the limited info in your post.
The Montana, from what I could find without a supplied year, has a dry weight of 12,346 lbs and a cargo carrying capacity of 3,294 lbs. That max's out the RV at 15640 lbs. Both trucks, according to the tow guides, max out at 13,000 13,800 lbs towing capacity. Both trucks will also have a problem with cargo capacity. The average pin weight of 3,284 lbs alone will eat up your trucks cargo capacities. Forget about passengers, hitch, extra cargo, etc.
The way I see it, based on the numbers, you need a smaller, much lighter RV or upgrade one of the trucks to a newer one ton.
Numbers don't lie.

[Entoman]

thanks for the quick replies,
I suppose that I need to research campers more.
the trucks I have were not purchased for this endeavor, but are what I have already
so then where is the cutoff approximately for length or size to stay within my current capabilities? this is my attempt to do some research far in advance to actually making the plunge...

[Montana Man]

The length won't be an issue. Weight will. I would weigh each truck, compare that to each GVWR, then you'll know how much trailer they will safely tow.

[mlh]

My brother and I went to Wyoming in his 454, 3500 Chevy. One of the guys with us said it wasn’t mileage per it was gallons per minute but you already knew that. We went up a mountain and had the insulation dripping from underneath it and wasn’t pushing it.
If you plan on traveling much get a Duramax. That is what my brother did.
Lynwood

[JABURKHOLDER]

[QUOTE=Entoman;1209170]thanks for the quick replies,
I suppose that I need to research campers more.
so then where is the cutoff approximately for length or size to stay within my current capabilities? this is my attempt to do some research far in advance to actually making the plunge...[/QUOTE

Important math to follow to stay within a truck's GVWR and GCWR.

The numbers I'll use are for example purposes only but the numbers are not far off the mark.

Know what the truck's GVWR and GCWR's are.
I.E. GVWR = 12,000lbs GCWR = 25,000lbs

Let's deal with GVWR first.
Like Montana Man said, weigh your truck. I would add, weigh your truck as if it were loaded for a trip. Full tank of fuel, passengers, hitch, tools, etc. Let's say the weight is 8,500lbs. Now subtract that weight from your GVWR. 12,000lbs - 8,500lbs = 3,500lbs. 3,500lbs is your real world remaining payload capacity for your truck. That means your RV pin weight cannot exceed 3,500lbs. One important thing to remember, at these example weights, you have max'd out your truck's GVWR and have no room for error. To get that room for error, I suggest the following when looking at RV weights. You will not know the RV's actual weight until you weight it with your stuff in it. Instead, use the RV's GVWR for your math. Let's use the 3400RL weight, 15,640lbs. The pin weight for a fifth wheel should be 15% - 25% of the RV weight. Typically, it averages out at about 21%. To build in you room for error, use 25%. 25% of 15,640 = 3,910lbs. That is too much for the truck's remaining 3,500lbs available payload. In this example, you need an RV with a GVWR of 14,000lbs or less to match your truck's payload and GVWR. The lighter the RV, the better.

Now let's deal with GCWR.
The truck's GVWR = 12,000lbs. The RV's GVWR = 15640lbs. Add the two together and you get 27,640lbs. But that is not your actual GCWR. Remember, you are carrying 3,910lbs in pin weight as truck cargo. You are towing 11,730lbs. Add that weight with your truck weight = 23,730lbs. Congrats, you are under your truck's GCWR of 25,000lbs. Unfortunately, you still have the overweight problem in the previous math.

Remember, these are examples only. I do not know your actually truck weights so I cannot give you your real world numbers. However, the math process is correct. Follow the math, the numbers don't lie.

I hope this helps.

[twindman]

Try looking at the Mountaineers from 2010 to 2014 or so. I have a 362 and it is very much like the 3400, but much lighter. Loaded it is right at 14,000. The pin weight is listed at around 2100, but that is empty. I actually weigh in with pin weight of around 2400-2500. My hitch is quite heavy and with 2 people and 36 gallons of diesel I am 400 lb over weight, but each axle and tires are okay.

Just giving an option.

[sourdough]

In a nutshell the selected trailer is too big for either truck as has been described. Your comments indicate you are going "to go with what you have" as far as truck so back into it a bit;

Figure you have a 3000lb. payload (probably close, maybe high on the 2500). What do you and the family weigh? Let's say 350. Hitch? 180. Tools/misc. - 200. Puppy - 60. Those running boards you added - 75. All that = 865. 3000 payload less 865 = 2135. So now we're looking at 2135lbs for a pin weight that absolutely maxes out your truck. But, I like to have at least a 10% safety cushion so deduct 215lbs. 2135 less 215 = 1920. 1920 for a payload.

What can you have with a 1900lb. payload? That would be a 5th wheel trailer with a gvw of 9050lbs. using a 21% pin weight. A 3/4 ton truck was never meant, or designed to carry a full size 5th wheel trailer. The dually would be problematic as well - both are gas engines; neither are made to pull a 15k trailer and won't do it well....if they don't implode. Neither have the benefit of the modern engines or multi-speed trannys - and we don't even know what your axle ratios are. If not in the 4.xx+ range, well, I would forget it just for that reason.

Bottom line is bigger truck or much smaller trailers - I don't even know if they make a 9k 5th wheel. Gas engines and 3/4 ton trucks are cut out well for larger travel trailers where you can figure 13% of gvw vs the 21% for a 5th wheel. That trailer is WAY out of the league of your trucks.

[Gubs]

I just purchased a new 3121RL montana and tried to pull it with my 2012 F-250 gasser. It pulled it well on the level and down hill, but struggled a bit going up some small hills. After lots of investigation and thousand of forum suggestions I pulled the plug and got a F-350 4x4 diesel and do not regret it at all. Pulls so much easier and feels much safer. I would advise looking at upgrading to a 350 or 3500 as soon as possible. Just my two cents worth!

[jeffba]

Originally Posted by Gubs

I just purchased a new 3121RL montana and tried to pull it with my 2012 F-250 gasser. It pulled it well on the level and down hill, but struggled a bit going up some small hills. After lots of investigation and thousand of forum suggestions I pulled the plug and got a F-350 4x4 diesel and do not regret it at all. Pulls so much easier and feels much safer. I would advise looking at upgrading to a 350 or 3500 as soon as possible. Just my two cents worth!

Only a thousand?

Gubs, you can see what your carrying capacity is by looking at your door sticker. That is a good place to start

[richfaa]

For your information .We pull a 13 3402 with a 2008, F-350, diesel, CC,LB. The truck ready to pull weighs in at a bit over 9K. Fords are heavy.

[JABURKHOLDER]

Originally Posted by twindman

I am 400 lb over weight, but each axle and tires are okay. .

Omg. Where are the weight police ?

[JABURKHOLDER]

Originally Posted by richfaa

For your information .We pull a 13 3402 with a 2008, F-350, diesel, CC,LB. The truck ready to pull weighs in at a bit over 9K. Fords are heavy.

Concur fords are heavy. My 2016 F350, diesel, dually, CC, LB, ready to pull weighs in at 9300lbs. But, I still have 4700lbs available payload left. Plenty for the pin weight of an 18000 + lb RV. And still be under my GCWR too.
Hell of a truck.
(not intended to start a whose truck is better debate)

[Dam Worker]

Originally Posted by twindman View Post
I am 400 lb over weight, but each axle and tires are okay.

Omg. Where are the weight police ?

Well I will admit that I was over on GCWR by around 5%. Tires, axels GVW were all okay. It still doesn’t make it legal or correct but lots of people do it daily. I am not a big fan of rolling on through stop signs or people running yellow/red lights but hey I have been known to run 5/10 mph over the speed limit, but mostly in vehicles designed for higher speeds. We all justify what we do while driving or towing, it is human nature. I ran that setup for awhile with short distance camping trips until I bought my DRW. Now I am way to the side of lots of extra safety and 5/10K of extra GCWR.

I am impressed that Entoman is wanting advice so that he can make his decision. Thanks for everyone giving good information without the extra crap that can quickly occur.

Entoman welcome to the Forum and which Lincoln are you from?
Happy and safe roads to you.

Tom

[Entoman]

I live in Lincoln Nebraska, but frequent St. Louis, southern Illinois and southern Arkansas often...I own houses in all of those areas. With respect to asking...I am doing so to not buy a camper that my truck won’t tow well. As a result I am looking at smaller rigs that my vehicle will be able to handle and I appreciate the sage advice I’ve seen. I won’t begin trekking until next winter due to covid, work and other issues (finishing a house I’ve been building, almost done). I also plan to continue work while traveling (I direct insecticide research for a biotech, so I have projects going on in most states). Thanks again Entoman..😁

[AZMont]

Ditto for me. We started with a 2015 Ram Megacab 2500 Diesel with air suspension. When I hooked up my 2015 3100 RL to it, the air suspension indicated it was overloaded. Truck had a cargo capacity of 1950#. When I CAT scaled my truck and truck with RV, found out I had 3,150# on the pin weight. I tried both timbrens and SumoSprings, both worked but the ride in the trailer was pretty rough. Also a pretty rough ride in the cab when not towing. We just bought a new 2020 Ram Megacab 3500 SRW Diesel w/o air suspension, works much better.

[Bob and Jeannette]

At the end of the day you start out with a diesel Dually 4x4 Max tow and deduct what you can’t live with.