2009 Chev 2500 vs 3500 HD

[Don57]

Just a drop out #3,1,some people think they know it all,#2 some people do know it all ,#3 some people can talk all day and not say a word,so I will stop talking.

[Lawman]

quote:Originally posted by Don57

Just a drop out #3,1,some people think they know it all,#2 some people do know it all ,#3 some people can talk all day and not say a word,so I will stop talking.

I have no idea what this means, but I can tell you from personal experience, a 3/4 ton truck is not up to the task for hauling a Montana around the country.

[dpam]

We'll I guess I'll contribute some information to this discussion. I have a 2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD D/A CC 4X4 6.6' box with GVWR = 9200 lbs, and Bridgestone LT 265/70R17 (E - 3195 lbs, and rear axel 6084lbs). With full tank of diesel, wife, me, and tools left 1680lbs left for the pin weight.

We just bought a 2010 - 3150RL loaded with dual pane windows and 2nd coat of gel-coat. The Monty brochure stated the pin weight is 1965lbs and the unloaded weight is 11,134lbs. The door sticker on the 3150 states the unloaded weight is 11,370lbs. I scaled the unloaded 3150 and the pin weight is 2178lbs and the trailer weight is 11,792 lbs. The wife and I loaded 500 lbs of our stuff in the trailer (not including food and beer, and no water in the tank)and I went off to weight the truck and trailer in its loaded state. In fact I scaled it twice to make sure it is correct. The following is the trailer loaded weights:

Loaded trailer weight - 9812 + 2244 pin wt = 12,056lbs
CGWR (truck & trailer) = 19,532 lbs
GMC brochure states the CGWR = 22,500 lbs (9200 + 13,300), however I find this confusing because on the GM website I saw them say the CGWR capability is over 15,000 lbs, but I don't care because I am below the 13,300lbs.

I know I am over the truck GVWR by 564 lbs, but I am well below the CGWR; below the rear axel rating; below the tire weight rating. I've added Firestone airbags to assist keeping the truck level. Once we make some trips and I feel we require additional spring support I will add additional springs.


In order to get my loaded pin weight I subtracted the truck unloaded rear axel weight from the loaded rear axel weight (with the king pin in the truck box). Or, am I suppose to use the the loaded truck wt (both axels) less the truck wt without the king pin in the box?

Am I correct with my calculations? Appreciate your thoughts.

Thank you.

David

[SlickWillie]

Funny thing, I would bet there a lot more 3/4 tons pulling Montana's than one tons. And I'm not sayin' if it is right or wrong. But, I don't see a lot of them on the side of the highway, or in wrecking yards, so they must be doing pretty good. Could it be the operator?

[exav8tr]

David, I think they are saying you can tow a 15k trailer as long as you don't exceed the 22,500 total GCWR. This means for a 15k trailer your truck (fuel, pax, cargo, hitch bed liner, tools, anything else you carry in the truck) should not weigh more than 7,500 lbs. With the figures given, your truck must weigh 7520 lbs which means you can haul a trailer weighing 14980lbs, However as you have stated you are over the GVW of the truck by 564 lbs. This is the problem with the 3/4 ton trucks, they just don't have the payload of the 1 ton trucks. Will 564 lbs make much of a difference? Who knows over the long run. I had a '05 Chevy 2500 and had an extra leaf spring added to support the added weight. It rode fine while towing, but rode heavy when not, stiffer suspension. I went with a one ton dually the next year and I really notice a difference in handling now. Only you will be able to tell if you have the right truck. I would say try it for a year and then reevaluate. Some will say "a 3/4 ton truck is not up to the task for hauling a Montana around the country". I have done it and many others also. Bottom line: It is your choice AND only yours. Good luck with whatever you haul with....

[exav8tr]

quote:Originally posted by Don57

Just a drop out #3,1,some people think they know it all,#2 some people do know it all ,#3 some people can talk all day and not say a word,so I will stop talking.

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[Art-n-Marge]

Okay, Don57... there's three of us now (Lawman, Exav8tr and myself) who'd like to have an explanation of exactly what you're saying. I think it's the first part that's confusing - "Just a drop out #3," - after that I think I follow your humor.

As for the topic, I still read from several experts that 40-45% of all RVs on the road are overweight, but I have not heard the repercussions, I don't know where they get this if some of us don't even now our weights to know if we are over or not. All I've read about crossing into Canada is if they see you sagging, they will check you. I am sure air bags or other spring helpers have prevented many of these stops. Like me and others we were overweight and corrected it by improving our rigs with suitable modifications or upgraded our TV. We then get backfilled by newbies that start overweight, then the cycle starts over again.

[mail2us]

Tom, (TLightning)

I took twindman's 52 gal tank statement as an additional 26 gal from his original tank which would be approx 200 lbs more from original weight?? 7.3 x 26=190 lbs.

[billhoover]

And one more formula to add to the mix...although an easy one: Actual tow capacity = GCWR - TV weight when ready to tow.

My GVWR is 11,400 and my GCWR is 23,500...therefore, even though the brochure says I can tow 16,400, if at GW, my actual tow capacity is 12,100 (23,500 - 11,400). Sure, I can haul that 16,400...as long as my truck is empty!

[exav8tr]

quote:Originally posted by billhoover

And one more formula to add to the mix...although an easy one: Actual tow capacity = GCWR - TV weight when ready to tow.

My GVWR is 11,400 and my GCWR is 23,500...therefore, even though the brochure says I can tow 16,400, if at GW, my actual tow capacity is 12,100 (23,500 - 11,400). Sure, I can haul that 16,400...as long as my truck is empty!

Bill, I think your statement is a little misleading. IF your truck grosses at 11,400 you are carrying a lot of stuff. IF you are adding in the pin weight of the trailer to that figure then you have to add that to the trailer weight which would be somewhere around 15k. The only way I can be close to the GW of my truck is IF I add in the pin weight of the trailer. Does this make sense???

[billhoover]

quote:Originally posted by exav8tr

Bill, I think your statement is a little misleading. IF your truck grosses at 11,400 you are carrying a lot of stuff. IF you are adding in the pin weight of the trailer to that figure then you have to add that to the trailer weight which would be somewhere around 15k. The only way I can be close to the GW of my truck is IF I add in the pin weight of the trailer. Does this make sense???

Sorry, didn't mean to be confusing. I'll try again...since we all (or 99% have 5th wheels) my example is for hauling a heavy 5th wheel. My empty truck weighs about 7,300, add 3,200# for 20% of a 16k Big Sky. Add the weight of the hitch, my extra fuel and add on tank, me, passengers, tools, pet and all his things, RV spare (I carry in the bed), bikes (also in the bed) and misc 'stuff.' The truck and PW alone are 10,500...that only leaves 900 for everything else listed. Therefore, my GCWR of 23,500 - TV weight of 11,400 = a tow capacity of 12,100. The Big Sky at 16,000 minus the PW of 3,200 being carried by the truck, weighs 12,800. Bottom line, my tow capacity of 12,100 compared to the RV weight of 12,800 means I'm 700 over GCWR. The way around the problem in this example is to move some 'stuff' from the truck to the RV...spare, bikes, tools, etc. As the weight of the truck is decreased, the weight of the RV is increased...and I can 'tow' more.

For example, if my total truck weight is 10,500...the weight I can tow goes up to 13,000. 23,500 - 10,500 = 13,000.

[exav8tr]

Bill, When I attended a "Life on Wheels" conference, conducted by the late RV Hall of Famer, Gordon Maxwell, there was a fellow there that taught us about weights, suspensions, brakes and several other important things. This fella taught us that a "Good" safety margin was about a 10% difference, that is if our GVWR was 23,500lbs we should only be carrying about 21,150. Keeping this safety margin in mind, there are MANY of us that do not have that. His point was there are very few pickup trucks (any brand, any size) that could safely carry the larger trailers. The main safety items he stressed were braking and tires. Of course, he drove a Class 8 Peterbuilt and hauled a triple axle Teton behind him. This was in 2007 and I believe Ford is the only one with the higher capacity pickup trucks. I'm glad to see the new trucks being built stronger and stronger. Today, coming back from Casa Grande to Phoenix, I passed a 2500 Chevy with a gooseneck trailer and 10 large head of cattle in the rear. I'm thinking 25k, at least. The only good point is he had all the cows in the forward compartment of the trailer. I was in my sons Mustang doing 65mph and he passed me rather easily. Takes all kinds.....

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by exav8tr

Today, coming back from Casa Grande to Phoenix, I passed a 2500 Chevy with a gooseneck trailer and 10 large head of cattle in the rear. I'm thinking 25k, at least. The only good point is he had all the cows in the forward compartment of the trailer. I was in my sons Mustang doing 65mph and he passed me rather easily. Takes all kinds.....

This 3/4 ton driver is obviously from the "been towing like this for years...never had a problem" crowd.

[billhoover]

quote:Originally posted by exav8tr

Bill, When I attended a "Life on Wheels" conference, conducted by the late RV Hall of Famer, Gordon Maxwell, there was a fellow there that taught us about weights, suspensions, brakes and several other important things. This fella taught us that a "Good" safety margin was about a 10% difference, that is if our GVWR was 23,500lbs we should only be carrying about 21,150. Keeping this safety margin in mind, there are MANY of us that do not have that.

Very interesting.

The vast majority of posts on this subject will espsouse the opposite, that GVWR is only a guide and the trucks are built to carry much more than the rating states. Of course those posts are made by folks who have much more RV than they do truck and are trying to justify not getting a proper truck. They are really bad over on RV Net.com.

[ray fischer]

The archives are full of info on this subject. I added the extra leaf to the pack plus the airbags. I did extensive research with Dodge. The only difference between my 2005 Dodge CTD 2500HD S/B is 1 leaf in the pack, the cab lights and badging. The tires, wheel, brakes, axle, etc,etc,etc are identical. Even though it still says 2500, I know that I am as safe as a 3500SRW. Steve Riegel also did extensive research on this subject and posted his findings a couple years ago. Be advised, air bags or timbrens alone are not enough to improve the GVW, they only help the existing suspension ride level. You need to add the leaf to improve suspension GVW.