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Old 09-08-2020, 02:21 PM   #1
Fishin2dMax
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Not able to access last 13 gallons of Fresh Water tank ?

I have a 2018 HC model 305 RL and do a lot of Boondocking. I've notice the water pump is not able to access approx 1/3 of the freshwater water in the tank. The tank will show 1/3 full, yet the pump starts to starve for water. I drained the tank when it begins to starve and every time there is approx 13 gallons of water still remaining in the tank (not from the water heater)? Given the Freshwater tank is only 54 gallons + 12 gallons in water heater (66 total), I'm only able to access 41 gallons; which doesn't last very long.

Before I attempt to drop the underbelly and look for a solution, I'm curious if others had this same issue, and what was done to fix it so more of the water in the tank can be drawn by the pump? Is the water connection to the freshwater tank at the bottom of the tank, or at the top with a draw line extending down into the tank? Your help is appreciated in trying to solve this.
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Old 09-09-2020, 12:19 AM   #2
Rondo
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I'm just guessing but I would say the line going into the tank is shorter than it should be. This is only a guess! From what I remember from tours through the plant at Keystone the line is run into the top of the tank for the pump to draw from. If you do drop the belly or the rear of the belly to check out the tank, which is in the rear belly of the unit normally, you should be able to see where the water line goes to for both filling and for the return line to the pumps location. I don't remember but I'm thinking that line will be plastic welded into place and may be difficult to remove or replace. Let us know what you find, if and when you do drop the rear belly.
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Old 09-09-2020, 05:18 AM   #3
beeje
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Cant answer for the newer units but my 2011 tank has a lowered section at the drain. This is where the fill/draw line comes in. Its as low as possible.
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Old 09-09-2020, 07:23 AM   #4
mhs4771
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Have you tried raising or lowering the front of the Monty? Might be the tank isn't exactly level with the frame and since all these tanks aren't very tall, just a degree of slope could leave 10 or 12 gallons away from the tank outlet. Something to try.
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Old 09-09-2020, 08:47 AM   #5
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Maybe try tilting your RV left or right depending on where your drain is.
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Old 09-09-2020, 09:13 AM   #6
Montana Man
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This last pic gives me an idea. Pull the hose off the side and look inside the tank.
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Old 09-09-2020, 09:26 AM   #7
Daryles
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Here is a different style tank.
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:47 AM   #8
beeje
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Originally Posted by Daryles View Post
Here is a different style tank.
That pic is exactly what I was describing the drop-down area. The white hose on the side is the draw from the pump or the fill from the pump depending upon where your selector knob is.
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:51 AM   #9
Fishin2dMax
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Thanks for all the replies. I crawled under the rear of the trailer today and there is signs that one side of tank may have fallen? The underbelly fabric is lower on the opposite of the tank drain and definitely has some pressure on it (fabric looks very stretched). I plan to will run an inspection camera up under there to see if the tank mounting straps are intact and confirm if tank has dropped on the one side. This could explain why I can't access all the water in the tank. If the tank indeed came loose, the underbelly fabric saved the day. I know there is some electric heat strips and insulation between the fabric and the tank, so it could be just excess insulation in the area? If the tank didn't drop, my other thought is putting in a "T" connection between drain line and tank and use this connection to the pump.
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Old 09-09-2020, 11:17 AM   #10
Mikelff
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Typically, the fill hose is on top of the tank and draw hose on bottom. Donít see why yours would be any different. These pics above show a small drop down moulded in the tank where the draw hose is connected. Only way to check for sure is to get eyeballs on it. Sounds like maybe something else is going on. Maybe a loose connection where your pump starts sucking air. When the tank if full there is pressure at the draw hose caused by the weight of the water and the pump doesnít have to work hard to get it. With less pressure as tank empties the pump has to work harder to get it. 13 gallons is still a lot of water. Is there any water leaking out the bottom when itís full? If no water leaks when tank is full, Check all the connections at the pump to make sure they are tight. If you are getting water when itís full you should be able to suck that tank dry unless it starts sucking air at some point. If its not, Iím at a loss of what is going on.
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Old 09-09-2020, 11:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin2dMax View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I crawled under the rear of the trailer today and there is signs that one side of tank may have fallen? The underbelly fabric is lower on the opposite of the tank drain and definitely has some pressure on it (fabric looks very stretched). I plan to will run an inspection camera up under there to see if the tank mounting straps are intact and confirm if tank has dropped on the one side. This could explain why I can't access all the water in the tank. If the tank indeed came loose, the underbelly fabric saved the day. I know there is some electric heat strips and insulation between the fabric and the tank, so it could be just excess insulation in the area? If the tank didn't drop, my other thought is putting in a "T" connection between drain line and tank and use this connection to the pump.
If your tank broke loose that definitely could be your problem.
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Old 09-09-2020, 11:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelff View Post
Typically, the fill hose is on top of the tank and draw hose on bottom. Donít see why yours would be any different. These pics above show a small drop down moulded in the tank where the draw hose is connected. Only way to check for sure is to get eyeballs on it. Sounds like maybe something else is going on. Maybe a loose connection where your pump starts sucking air. When the tank if full there is pressure at the draw hose caused by the weight of the water and the pump doesnít have to work hard to get it. With less pressure as tank empties the pump has to work harder to get it. 13 gallons is still a lot of water. Is there any water leaking out the bottom when itís full? If no water leaks when tank is full, Check all the connections at the pump to make sure they are tight. If you are getting water when itís full you should be able to suck that tank dry unless it starts sucking air at some point. If its not, Iím at a loss of what is going on.
Unless they changed something that statement is incorrect. The power fill hose and the hose that draws from the pump are the same hoes it just flows in different directions when you change the switch in the convenience center
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Old 09-09-2020, 12:58 PM   #13
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I have a water meter I connect when filling. The most I have filled before it comes out the vent is 42 gallons. So like the OP, I'm not getting all the water out either. In the brochure they say 66 gallons of freshwater. We know now through research, Keystone counts it like this...
50 gallon water tank + 12 gallon water heatet + 4 gallons in the pipes.
I have not noticed any unusual bulges back there.
One day I will take the bottom off mine and this will be on the list of things to check.
They shot nails to attach the coroplast. To remove the coroplast use a nail puller pry bar under the fender washers and a 1/4" bit in your drill in reverse. Pry down as you reverse the nail out. I just tried it last night for an upcoming project. Easy.
Get #10 x 1" stainless steel screws to replace the nails.
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:08 PM   #14
Fishin2dMax
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Thanks for the advice on pulling the underbelly fasteners.
I was wondering how to get those "nails / screws" out. I just hate the idea of pulling down the underbelly material. The rear OEM trailer hitch looks to be a challenge in pulling the underbelly down without having to cut it. As I've learned over many years, it's always easier to take things apart, quite another to get things back together, properly aligned and sealed.
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Old 09-09-2020, 05:31 PM   #15
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I have seen every square inch of the underbelly of my camper with the coroplast off. Freshwater tank does sag quite a bit which could trap many gallons of water in the Bulge. Has someone stated earlier raise the side of the camper away from the drain or lower the drain side and you will get some more water.

In an attempt to reduce the bulging downwards I added another brace in the center and put a piece of stainless on top of the braces between them and the tank. I would estimate now I can use about 95% of the water if not a little more
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Old 09-09-2020, 07:17 PM   #16
Montana Man
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If the water pickup hose were able to lay in the lowest part of a bulge then better yet.
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:48 PM   #17
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Before tearing everything apart, I would check everything on the suction side of the pump. The lower the water gets, it becomes increasingly more difficult to raise it to the pump. If there's a loose connection anywhere, more and more air will be sucked into the suction line as the water gets lower in the tank. You may not see a leak because that line isn't under pressure and water may simply go back into the tank. With all the vibration and bumping while towing, it's reasonable that a screwed on connection may loosen. A prime location to check is at the pump connection or a strainer/filter in the suction line. I would also check to make sure that the RV is level. On another note, the pump may be getting weak and can't suck good enough to raise the water when it gets low in the tank.

One time I found a water line bent so badly that it closed off the flow, almost completely. Doesn't hurt to look for that too, while you have the area opened up. Good luck. Hope you find the problem.
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Old 09-13-2020, 05:23 PM   #18
Twopetes
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I have an HC353. This spring we had a leak and had to drop the tank out to replace a fitting. The in and out line are the same and at the bottom of the tank. Tank is a 50 gal tank.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:43 PM   #19
tooth ferry
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water tank

2014 HC 305 RL Brochure said 60 gallons but is only 40 gal. on ours. Disclaimer said changes could be made without notice.
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:07 AM   #20
Mikelff
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Originally Posted by tooth ferry View Post
2014 HC 305 RL Brochure said 60 gallons but is only 40 gal. on ours. Disclaimer said changes could be made without notice.
I would just confirm that other units of the same year and model have the same tank. Keystone has a habit of ďsubbingĒ items if they happen to run out of stock on them. As on a previous post, Keystone apparently counts your hot water tank volume in that fresh water tank volume rating, plus whats in the waterlines, which is really bogus. If other units of same model and year actually have larger tanks, I would have a conversation with Keystone about it. Worth checking out.
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