Blueprints

[BeagleMan]

Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving

Was wondering, is there some way or some one that I could contact for a blueprint of my 2021 Montana 3763BP? I just want to learn as much as possible about my rig. Also, the roof, so I can plan out solar panel placements down the road. Thank you.

AC

[DQDick]

IMHO those type of things should be available, but as far as I know, no one has ever been able to get even a wiring diagram out of Keystone.

[mlh]

No Keystone doesn’t give those out. Some things are done without a blueprint like wiring. It would take too long to get the prints out when there are several ways to run a wire when all that matters is everything works. It’s like your home there wasn’t any wiring prints or the plumbing.
Lynwood

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by DQDick

IMHO those type of things should be available, but as far as I know, no one has ever been able to get even a wiring diagram out of Keystone.

[dieselguy]

They'd have to have a dedicated full time drafting department making those "blueprints" as sadly I'd venture to guess no two units are ever built exactly alike even of the same model ...

[Rondo]

Andrew-- the best way to to find out how your unit was made and seeing what is behind those walls, crawl space and above you in the ceiling is to join us IF and WHEN the next National Fall Rally is held. Besides the sessions put on by OEM manufacturers that Keystone Montana uses, Montana actually open up their two plants for tours on specific days during the Rally. You start when the frame comes into the plant upside down all the way to the finished product as it comes off the line and each phase of build that it goes through. Watch here on the Forum for the 2021 MOC National Fall Rally announcement. The Rally is always held in September and is normally announced sometime between April and June each year. Hopefully, this Pandemic will be over early enough for the Wagon Masters and their Team to be able to plan this coming year's Rally!
Also, you might want to check here in the Archive section of the Forum for video tours that some folks have taken and posted of their tour of the factories. I think, Keystone Montana Division also have several videos concerning the building of their units if you go to their website.
Since you have a new 2021 Monte you may already have the unit pre-wired for solar. Some of the units are coming off the line for such.
Welcome aboard and enjoy that new Montana!

[Mikendebbie]

I had a 2011 Jayco and they sent me drawings of the exterior wall framing (all four walls) when I called and asked. They emailed them in pdf files. I had a mid-90s Alpenlite fiver and the owners manual had all the wiring diagrams, which is different than a wire routing plan from manufacturing.

Keystone always says “contact your dealer”. I do not have a feel for what “ industry standard” is - i.e. - is Keystones policy the same as what most manufacturers are doing or are they the only one who will not work this with customers. This feels to me like a lawyer advised them this should be a “best practice”.

[phillyg]

Sorry, they can't even provide an end-user manual that's worth the paper it's printed on.

[cgeis48]

If you need a specific diagram such as the TV cabling they will often email it to you. Call their Customer Service at 866-425-4369
It's far better to contact the vendor for most systems on a Montana ie. MorRyde, Lippert, Onan, etc.

[Byron B]

Originally Posted by DQDick

IMHO those type of things should be available, but as far as I know, no one has ever been able to get even a wiring diagram out of Keystone.

No wiring diagrams from Keystone available because they do not use them.

My evidence that backs up that statement is that my front a/c is wired to the back thermostat. The back a/c is wired to the front thermostat.

[beeje]

Desiring plans for a trailer is akin to wanting a wiring / pluming schematic for your sticks and bricks home. Not going to happen.
Even if you have a new custom home built, you will not get anything more detailed that the building plans. They will not tell you how wires/ducts/pipes are run through the walls and floors.
Its up to the electrician/plumber/HVAC guy/company as to how its plumbed or wired. There are infinite ways to do it, with no two ways being the same.

[Byron B]

Originally Posted by mlh

No Keystone doesn’t give those out. Some things are done without a blueprint like wiring. It would take too long to get the prints out when there are several ways to run a wire when all that matters is everything works. It’s like your home there wasn’t any wiring prints or the plumbing.
Lynwood

Lynwood, I built both custom and spec homes in addition to many commercial projects in NM and Texas for 30 years. To get a building permit, wiring plans are required in both states. As far as plumbing plans, I required the plumbers who bid to me to draw the plumbing plans on the floor plan or electrical blueprint. And I checked them when the work was done. And yes, each of my homeowners had a full set of plans at closing.

[beeje]

Originally Posted by Byron B

Lynwood, I built both custom and spec homes in addition to many commercial projects in NM and Texas for 30 years. To get a building permit, wiring plans are required in both states. As far as plumbing plans, I required the plumbers who bid to me to draw the plumbing plans on the floor plan or electrical blueprint. And I checked them when the work was done. And yes, each of my homeowners had a full set of plans at closing.

I seriously doubt those plans are detailed enough to tell you ("exactly") where the wires are run. What I mean is; take for example a run from the panel for receptacles. The wire goes from a breaker to the first box, then to the next box and so on. But the plans will not tell you how the wire gets to the next box. Does it go through holes drilled horizontal. Does it go down below and back up. Does it go up and back down, etc.

Yes, one can figure out witch wire goes where, but not how it gets there.

[craigb]

Most products out of the RV manufacturers are as unique as fingerprints. Most components are used as available and wiring as and plumbing are what looked easiest that day. Good luck. Spend $75k and it's warranty is 1 year....as long as they can remember how it was put together.
Owned a Montana since 2013. Can't even find wheel replacement.

[Rondo]

Apparently Craig you have not searched hard enough for replacement wheels because Tredit is the OEM supplier for the Montana's in the way of wheels and tires. Since you have a 2013 or there about, according to your post you may not be able to get the exact wheels again that came on your unit because they do rotate out on the wheels but I'd give it a try and see what they might have or if they can match your wheels you're looking for.

[Byron B]

Originally Posted by beeje

I seriously doubt those plans are detailed enough to tell you ("exactly") where the wires are run. What I mean is; take for example a run from the panel for receptacles. The wire goes from a breaker to the first box, then to the next box and so on. But the plans will not tell you how the wire gets to the next box. Does it go through holes drilled horizontal. Does it go down below and back up. Does it go up and back down, etc.

Yes, one can figure out witch wire goes where, but not how it gets there.

Actually if you are familiar with the NEC (national electric code) and the local exceptions and codes, you will know that the wires “normally” go up above the top plate from the box. Then pretty much in a direct line across the joists to the top plate above the first box (switch or outlet) or whatever is the first outlet in the line. Then a horizontal line through the vertical framing members to the next and the next until the last on that particular circuit. A good set of plans includes all outlets and switches, whether to an appliance, a duplex outlet or to whatever. So essentially the wires run from the breaker box to the top plate above the first outlet or switch. The plans say where to go from there.
There are also standards as far as to the height of any type of outlet is mounted so a little thinking along with the plans will NORMALLY put you within inches of normal residential wiring.
From personal experience, there is no reasonable explanation as to how wiring or outlets are placed in our Rvs.

[craigb]

Originally Posted by Rondo

Apparently Craig you have not searched hard enough for replacement wheels because Tredit is the OEM supplier for the Montana's in the way of wheels and tires. Since you have a 2013 or there about, according to your post you may not be able to get the exact wheels again that came on your unit because they do rotate out on the wheels but I'd give it a try and see what they might have or if they can match your wheels you're looking for.

Thank you Rondo. I went to Tredit first thing. I thought sure they would maintain replacements for at least 5 years but no luck. Still looking on the open market.

[jeffba]

Originally Posted by beeje

Desiring plans for a trailer is akin to wanting a wiring / pluming schematic for your sticks and bricks home. Not going to happen.
Even if you have a new custom home built, you will not get anything more detailed that the building plans. They will not tell you how wires/ducts/pipes are run through the walls and floors.
Its up to the electrician/plumber/HVAC guy/company as to how its plumbed or wired. There are infinite ways to do it, with no two ways being the same.

When our S&B was built we had 3 friends building at the same time. We would check on the progress of each others home. It was truly amazing how 4 different homes built by the same builder would have 4 different styles of plumbing. The big difference were the chambers to prevent water hammer.

Some had one at every faucet and one had only 2. and One I caught a leak small enough to pass inspection, but enough to get the floor wet.

The wires in the attic are musical. They are pulled so tight you can pluck them.

Yes it would be nice if there was some logic to how the wires are ran. It would certainly look better if they at least tried to bundle the wiring.

but it all boils down to the bottom line.

[beeje]

Originally Posted by Byron B

Actually if you are familiar with the NEC (national electric code) and the local exceptions and codes, you will know that the wires “normally” go up above the top plate from the box. Then pretty much in a direct line across the joists to the top plate above the first box (switch or outlet) or whatever is the first outlet in the line. Then a horizontal line through the vertical framing members to the next and the next until the last on that particular circuit. A good set of plans includes all outlets and switches, whether to an appliance, a duplex outlet or to whatever. So essentially the wires run from the breaker box to the top plate above the first outlet or switch. The plans say where to go from there.
There are also standards as far as to the height of any type of outlet is mounted so a little thinking along with the plans will NORMALLY put you within inches of normal residential wiring.
From personal experience, there is no reasonable explanation as to how wiring or outlets are placed in our Rvs.

IMHO your last statement also applies to home wiring. Years ago I did all the wiring of a large addition to my home. I was approved to do so after taking a test through our county. The inspector said to me ("who do this wiring") I said I did. He said "I have never seen a wiring job this good in my decades of inspecting". There was not even a twist in any wire. LOL.

My point being, I could back to that (sold) home and tell you what devise is on what circuit (because everything it labeled ), but as to exactly where the wires are routed, I would have no clue. And I'm the one who did it.

As far as my Monty is concerned, I have seen almost every sq inch of it. I can tell you there is very little it the way of 120v lines in the underbelly. Everything goes up into the attic and back down. There may be some wires going horizontal, but they would be in an interior wall.