Rich(richfaa) & Helen Write the Check. - Page 5 - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 05-08-2006, 02:37 PM

Found some post on the doors falling off that go back to July 2005 so it has been awhile and it is still happening..Oh well Mark Krol was hoping never to hear from me again...wrong....Those screws are so tiny and short.It this these kind of stupid things that really get me going.

dsprik · 05-08-2006, 02:41 PM

Let me know what Mark says, Rich. I'll let you do the yelling... My unit is still on the line, and I really don't want to tick the old world craftsmen off, who currently have hammers and screwdrivers standing next to my partially built unit...

richfaa · 05-08-2006, 02:46 PM

Note on the weight of the hi gloss finish,, I spent about one hour on the phone a couple of months ago before I found someone at Keystone who knew FOR sure what the ADDITIONAL weight of the hi gloss finish was..it is 200 lbs so if you like the Hi gloss weight is not much of a factor..The dual pane windows are also @ 200lbs ADDITIONAL weight. In our case it was a cost vs benefit thing..The HI gloss cost way to much for , to me, being prettier at close range.

Dave e Victoria · 05-08-2006, 04:33 PM

Congratulations Rich and Helen. We were off in Mexico for five days and returned to find 9 pages of replies on you new coach. That has to be some kind of record. Good luck and please don't get stressed if you find something else in the first couple of trips out -- or even a year later. As Fats Waller once said, "One never knows does one."

richfaa · 05-09-2006, 03:27 AM

On the Cabinet doors falling off Issue, We WILL track this down..Need to find out if the cabinets come assembled from the vendor or if Keystone assembles them..this could be a vendor problem.To check your cabinets..Try to tighten the hinge screws, do not apply a lot of pressure, If you can spin them they are stripped and will eventually fall off. Over half of ours can be spun.We will get a longer screw and screw and glue. We will get about 50 longer screws. Dave..we are not stressed because this forum has prepared us for what may go wrong..When the cabinet door came off in Helen's hands we both said...Oh..it's the old door falls off in your hand trick and we know exactly what to do about it.

CountryGuy · 05-09-2006, 04:04 AM

USED to be that the cabinets were built in the factory. Could be vendored now, but I'll give a weak bet on factory. You do not see that area of the operation on the factory tour.

dsprik · 05-09-2006, 04:34 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

On the Cabinet doors falling off Issue, We WILL track this down..Need to find out if the cabinets come assembled from the vendor or if Keystone assembles them..this could be a vendor problem.To check your cabinets..Try to tighten the hinge screws, do not apply a lot of pressure, If you can spin them they are stripped and will eventually fall off. Over half of ours can be spun.We will get a longer screw and screw and glue. We will get about 50 longer screws. Dave..we are not stressed because this forum has prepared us for what may go wrong..When the cabinet door came off in Helen's hands we both said...Oh..it's the old door falls off in your hand trick and we know exactly what to do about it.

I think a call to Mark Kroll could flag something like this and have them change out, or install longer ones in the first place, in our unit that is still on the line, don't you think, Rich?

Montana Sky · 05-09-2006, 04:49 AM

Boy I guess it makes me glad that I got the 14th 3400RL off the assembly line back in the early months of 2004. This was Keystone's brand new floor plan for the Montana line, and a first with 4 slides. Sounds like back then quality was set at a higher standard. I am amazed at the problems some of our members are having! My coach has had just a few minor adjustments within the first 5 months of ownership. Could it be I got lucky and caught the builders on a good day?

SKOOBDO · 05-09-2006, 06:36 AM

Well guys, I just check about 20 screws on my cabinets and they were fine...Thank God! I removed the standard shower head and holder the other day, and the screws they put in the holder were tight too...the screws weren't easy to remove. The new shower head I bought is a(Rainmaker II)which runs about $40 or less with an adjustable head and a three position mount, works a lot better than the stock model and suppose to save water if that matters to you guys. I don't pay for water only electricity where I am right now, but if you're boondocking with no hookups it probably would matter. Just something a few of you might consider getting installed in your shower...takes less than 5 minutes if that. Allison

dsprik · 05-09-2006, 07:01 AM

Allison, did you pull one of those screws out of the cupboard? I'd be curious if they are the same length screws that Rich has in his... Can you say: "Different vendor"?

SKOOBDO · 05-09-2006, 07:26 AM

dsprik, I didn't loosen any of the ones I checked on the cabinets, I just took a phillips and tried to tighten them and they were fine. The only screws I removed were from the shower head mount holder. They were definetly tighten in there. I saved the screws from the shower and just measured them. The entire screw including the head measures over 3/4ths of an inch, the head measures 1/8th of an inch. The threaded area (screw) measures exactly 3/4th of an inch. I just tried some more cabinet screws and no issues. Also, I measured the width of wood stip on the cabinet that the screws are inserted into, and the strip is exactly 3/4th of an inch wide. Therefore, they probably have the same length of screw I described above that I removed from the shower. Just my quess, because you can barely feel the end of the screw from behind the wood strip. If they use a longer screw, someone could get cut their finger on all those screws sticking out when you're either trying to remove things from the cabinet or cleaning it...Just my thought..so there may be some logic there. I figure if any screws every get stripped then use one of those plastic anchors, put the screw back in and call it a day. Life's too short

richfaa · 05-09-2006, 07:40 AM

The cabinet screws that came loose in the camper are standard hinge screws, very short. I count 156 hinge screws in the 3400.Iv'e got well over 20 tight ones and a bunch of loose ones..I would check them all.Tne doors that fell of were the ones near where the Vac would be if you have one... at the far rear end of the island. The holes were stripped as I could pull the screws out with my fingers once they came loose. We had opened and closed those doors maybe 15 times while lining and loading the camper.

SKOOBDO · 05-09-2006, 08:03 AM

Ok Richfaa....I was not trying to do any work today, but dag gone it...I got my step stool out and checked them all and this is what I found: Four (4) screws needed tighten, but they weren't really loose, I just turned them less than 1/8th of a turn or less than that, what I'm saying is they were tight but I just tighten them a little more, but not so much that I would strip them. Seriously, if you think you might have a problem with them, I would just anchor them in the hole. Actually, checking all the screws in and outside of my unit was at the top of my list. I've checked some really important ones outside already, and was planning on doing everything on the inside on a rainy weekend

like the window screws and there a bunch of those

One thing my dealer told me the first time I purchased my other unit, is that most people don't check screws and connections and wonder why crap happens. My other unit was in tip top condition and never had ANY problem with anything falling apart etc. I figure all connections/screws need to be checked regularly, especially if the unit is being moved/travelling a lot. I would say if it is sitting most of the time, every 3 months should suffice. It's a good thing you've been checking everything out. I've been doing the same thing. Those manuals put me to sleep, but its good to read them too, but oftentimes some of them don't provide much information only installation information. One thing I found in my freezer was a "climate control" switch, which most often is on the outside of some units (like my old one), and I thought the freezer didn't have one...you find out something new everyday

Take care!

richfaa · 05-09-2006, 11:38 AM

Sounds like you are in good shape.If they are loose and they will tighten then they are not stripped.The stripped ones will not tighten..While you are at it check your underbelly for gaps where it is screwed to the frame.I have not yet got to the window screws but they are on my list..Oh..found. a very loose screw holding the ladder on at the very top.All in all it is just little stuff but the little things if not corrected can become big things down the road.

JH Sechelt · 05-09-2006, 03:03 PM

Hi Rich,
I noticed when I cut out My cabinet for our after market fireplace, that the cabinets were made out of a lumber core plywood with the oak finished paneling on it. The biggest problem with lumber core plywood is that they use a very soft & light wood like aspen for the core. Real soft wood like aspen just doesn't hold screws very well. A 5 or 7 layer veneer core plywood would hold screws a lot better but I would guess it would add too much weight. When I was back in the the building supply years the 3 screws on the back of the cabinet door were 1/2' long and the 2 screws into the front of the cabinets were 5/8 " long. you could probably go to Home depot and buy just the 5/8" screws in bulk and don't think they would cost much. we used to some times take Weldbond ( white glue) and mix it with a very fine sawdust and put into the holes and let it set before putting in the screws. When building model airplanes we use a very thin CA glue ( like crazy glue). it runs very easy and will wick into the screw holes and make the wood very hard. That will hold screws much better. Just a couple of ideas.
Take care J & D

Searchers · 05-09-2006, 03:38 PM

Rich, the wife says I have a screw loose but it's not in the Montana! Seriously we've never had a problem with them in this old rig, but did have a couple of cabinet doors start to separate at the joints two years ago. A fairly easy fix with clamps and wood glue.

Don

CountryGuy · 05-09-2006, 04:43 PM

Al's preferred fix for stripped screw holes is the ole wooden match trick. Put one in, break off even with cabinet, put screw back, if it still slips, take out, put in another match, break off even, put screw back in, continue till no more slipage. 2 or 3 usually does it. If you want you can even put some wood glue in that hole with the wooden match sticks. Works for us.

richfaa · 05-10-2006, 02:51 AM

JHsechelt is exactly correct in what the problem is and the fix.We did go to home depot and buy bulk 5/8 inch screws and screw and glue(super glue) the ones that came loose and we will do the same as the others come loose .We really do not feel like replacing all 156 screws. As for the tape for the underbelly I went to my local RV shop to see if they had the tape that Montana Sky recommended and they did not but said they used Gorilla Tape which they said is the same and just as good. Ace Hardware has Gorilla tape for 8.95 a roll.I did a couple of test strips on the underbelly.

richfaa · 05-11-2006, 03:42 AM

Two days of intermittent light to heavy rain with gusty winds.Camper in the driveway all slides out.We just had a monsoon type downpour.We checked every nook and cranny..no leaks..yet...So far small annoying, poor design and workmanship issues. gaps in underbelly, Cabinets falling off due to loose hinge screws the kind of no excuse for these things issues that get my Sicilian up.

dsprik · 05-11-2006, 04:34 AM

When Cheryl and I go to the factory this coming Tues (16th), we will ask about these two items, Rich. Since we won't be there while they are actually installing those cupboards, that may be a difficult item to address, but I will do what I can.

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