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07-04-2015, 01:29 AM
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#1
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Established Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Elon
Posts: 17
M.O.C. #17516
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Some Disappointment
Well my wife and I just completed our first trip and all went well except for two little hiccups . When we got home though,our first real issue appeared. We had just finished unpacking and the rain came. About 20 minutes after it stopped,I went in to get something and found a small stream of water coming from the corner of the kitchen cabinet and it ran to the dining area and got the rug pretty wet. Well since we don't trust the dealer because of our buying experience (described on another page) and since I'm a pretty good mechanic, I decided to investigate myself. I took the panels off in the pass through along with the access panel under the sink and the panel under the steps. No obvious leak found but boy was I disappointed! I found a mess, sawdust, ends of pull rivets,three steel plugs,backing paper from the flooring,scraps of flooring and tubing etc. and some of the sloppy construction REALLY surprised me. We love our coach but wow, I thought Keystone took pride in there work, but I'm sure there all the same.
Anyway after not finding the source of water,I'm wondering two things, first,I thought it would be a good idea to put about two gallons of fresh water in the black tank for the trip home to slosh around and clean the tank,but after pulling the panels I found the tank vent and when I shook it,out came water,could that be my source or second,I found there is an Ice maker drain (I think) under the sink with a valve attached that May have leaked? I sat in the pass through for more than an hour while it rained again making sure that was not the source and I'm pretty sure it is not,any suggestions. Thanks All. Sorry this is so long.
2016 Montana 3711FL
Chevy Silverado 3500 which performed flawlessly.
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07-04-2015, 02:05 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hanover
Posts: 1,473
M.O.C. #13325
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Don't know about the source of your leak, but you shouldn't be all that surprised at the debris left behind from construction. If you do any sticks & bricks renovation, you'll be absolutely amazed at what the folks that built your home left in the walls, ceilings and any other place they could. In fifteen years at our current home I've found empty beer cans, nails, graffiti behind paneling, and all sorts of misc. crap. Same in our previous home.
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07-04-2015, 03:56 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3,335
M.O.C. #10496
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Sorry to learn of your disillusionment with the "craftsmanship and quality control" in your rig but if it's any comfort, you're not alone. With the big $$$ that you pay for these rigs you expect better. I know this is not exclusive to the Keystone brand but frankly I'm getting tired of hearing that excuse. I have a hard time rationalizing mediocre work. I expect other owners have the same issue.
I too don't trust my selling dealer (we bought our unit brand new off the lot) so I can relate to your feelings in this regard.
Hope you find the source of your leak and it's an easy repair.
__________________
2010 3150RL
LevelUp, Dual 6 volt batteries, Progressive Industries EMS HW50C, Honda EU2000i Generator, Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires, Torklift Glowstep Revolution Stairs, LED Tail lights
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie SRW LB CC Cummins 6.7L Aisin Trans B&W RVK3600
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07-04-2015, 04:00 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Welcome to the world of Rv'ing.
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07-04-2015, 05:24 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 3,944
M.O.C. #1034
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Sadly, it wouldn't take much to clean up these areas before they are totally enclosed.
Instead we are left with that feeling of disappointment each and every time we go investigating a problem on our own.
__________________
Darwin & Maureen DeBackere
Minnedosa, Manitoba, Canada
2011/3500/Silverado/4x4/DRW/Duramax
2017/3721RL/Legacy Pkg./Pressure-Pro
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07-04-2015, 05:38 AM
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#6
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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When you do 20 or more competed rigs, start to finish everyday, there is no time for cleanup.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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07-04-2015, 07:43 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3,335
M.O.C. #10496
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by DQDick
When you do 20 or more competed rigs, start to finish everyday, there is no time for cleanup.
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Then they should do 19 units and cleanup like real professionals do
__________________
2010 3150RL
LevelUp, Dual 6 volt batteries, Progressive Industries EMS HW50C, Honda EU2000i Generator, Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires, Torklift Glowstep Revolution Stairs, LED Tail lights
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie SRW LB CC Cummins 6.7L Aisin Trans B&W RVK3600
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07-04-2015, 07:46 AM
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#8
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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I don't disagree, but as long as we the consumer buy the product anyway, they're not going to change.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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07-04-2015, 09:14 AM
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#9
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Westford
Posts: 403
M.O.C. #1250
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[quote]Originally posted by DQDick
When you do 20 or more competed rigs, start to finish everyday, there is no time for cleanup.
I disagree Dick. There is time you just have to take the time. I had over forty years as a carpenter and we always cleaned up at the end of the day.
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07-04-2015, 10:25 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Gaston
Posts: 8,773
M.O.C. #12156
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I am a volunteer with habitat and we build houses. We clean up our work area. The sloppy work we see wit jpg keystone is simple, don't give a crap attitude and sloppy management.
__________________
Mike and Lorraine
2002 3655 FL, 2005 3650RK
2010 3665RE, 2015 3910FB
F350 crew cab dually 6.7
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07-04-2015, 11:02 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Kissimmee
Posts: 545
M.O.C. #14096
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When we picked up our Big Sky from the Service Center in Goshen, I told Steve Holmes he should buy a Shop Vac and take it to the assembly line. 11 months and we still vacuum sawdust off the floor, couch, and bed every time we move it.
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07-04-2015, 11:14 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,669
M.O.C. #2283
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How much extra would you pay to have your camper cleaned up as it is being built?
Lynwood
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07-04-2015, 12:19 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3,335
M.O.C. #10496
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mlh
How much extra would you pay to have your camper cleaned up as it is being built?
Lynwood
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You mean sloppy construction is already built into the current price? Why can't Keystone reduce their profit margin by $50 per unit and pay someone to clean them before buttoning them up.
__________________
2010 3150RL
LevelUp, Dual 6 volt batteries, Progressive Industries EMS HW50C, Honda EU2000i Generator, Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires, Torklift Glowstep Revolution Stairs, LED Tail lights
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie SRW LB CC Cummins 6.7L Aisin Trans B&W RVK3600
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07-04-2015, 03:49 PM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 3,944
M.O.C. #1034
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Think we already pay enough, don't you!
__________________
Darwin & Maureen DeBackere
Minnedosa, Manitoba, Canada
2011/3500/Silverado/4x4/DRW/Duramax
2017/3721RL/Legacy Pkg./Pressure-Pro
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07-04-2015, 03:53 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bridgewater
Posts: 1,196
M.O.C. #13166
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You guys are right, sloppy construction, don't give a crap attitude, misaligned parts, blah, blah, blah. Dick's right, we keep lining up to fork over our money anyway, so where's the problem? We end users are already the QC department and the punch-list carpenters. So now we're the clean-up crew, also.
Too bad it's come to this, but I guess if you can't deal with it, it's time to find another hobby, cuz they're not going to change.
__________________
2010 Montana 3455SA, Mor/Ryde pin, wet bolts, TST 507, Progressive HW50C, GY G614
2019 Silverado D/A 3500HD LTZ DRW CC
B&W Companion
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07-04-2015, 04:23 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pensacola (mail forward service)
Posts: 3,198
M.O.C. #13740
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Too bad there isn't a japanese rv manufacturer in this country! Amish craftmanship my ... ! So sorry my attitude towards keystone isn't better....but they have too earn it! John
__________________
2012 F350 6.7 L dually, 2013 3800RE with 6 pt leveling, Sumitomo 17.5" load range h tires, Samsung 18 cu ft residential fridge, 8k Morryde I.S. with disc brakes. Full timing since 2012.
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07-04-2015, 04:25 PM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Been this way for years. Had a 1993 Coachman TT that was full of sawdust and metal shavings. There was so much sawdust in the overhead light fixtures that the lights were dim. Every Rv we have had was the same.
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07-05-2015, 01:06 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bridgewater
Posts: 1,196
M.O.C. #13166
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I don't remember my first TT having these quality concerns. It was a Sunline. My second one had sawdust in the lights and sloppy workmanship. It was a Cougar, another Keystone product. But, Sunline is long gone, and Keystone rolls on.
__________________
2010 Montana 3455SA, Mor/Ryde pin, wet bolts, TST 507, Progressive HW50C, GY G614
2019 Silverado D/A 3500HD LTZ DRW CC
B&W Companion
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07-05-2015, 06:42 AM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa
Welcome to the world of Rv'ing.
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Hi richfaa
How are you feeling? I have been doing well since the doc gave me the injection.
Our next RV will be a 5th wheel with a 2 year cap to cap and 5 year structure warranty. I will only have $5,000 more in it than I now have in the Montana after paying for the warranty work that Keystone denied.
That warranty will cure the problems we all have had with the new rigs.
I forgot one thing there will be no Lippert supplied products incorporated in the new unit. This is the manufacturer’s statement not a requirement from me and the manufacturer seemed very proud of that fact. This is not a custom built unit.
Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https:// www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
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07-05-2015, 07:32 AM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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We are doing well Phil we will be seeing a orthopedic guy next week to take a good look at the hip. There has already been 5K spent on this 13 3402 Big Sky on repairs most all covered by extended warranty. This is our last Rv of any brand. I do not have the confidence in any brand being any better that this one. We hope we have turned the corner on failures.
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