Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Additions & Improvements
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-23-2007, 09:03 AM   #1
berridge
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Catharines
Posts: 176
M.O.C. #6415
Water Heater Control

I believe I am not the only one using the fuse panel to turn the water heater on and of in situations where we pay for electricity since there is no interior switch. I would like to install a timer in the line that runs from the fuse panel to the heater element and so a question to the electrical types out there in Montana Owners land. Is the best way to do this to install an outlet box somewhere in the line and use an appliance timer. I believe this is a dedicated circuit so it would not affect other devices. Any ideas would be appreciated.
 
berridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 09:37 AM   #2
HamRad
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 5,316
M.O.C. #15
Berridge,

You may want to check on some previous posts made by OZZ. I believe he has done this exact process. If I remember correctly he even included some excellent pictures.

HamRad
HamRad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 11:19 AM   #3
Ozz
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
berridge,
Here is a link to my slide show on the hot water heater timer, if you have any questions, do not hesitate to follow up and ask.
Ozz
Click me...
Ozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 01:25 PM   #4
bsmeaton
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
My hot water heater will hold hot water for over 8 hrs after I shut the electric and fuel off for travel. Is a timer really justified? It seems pretty efficient already.
bsmeaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 01:28 PM   #5
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
This may be a dumb question but I sure don't know the answer. There seems to be one school of thought that says to heat the water and then keep it hot costs less than to have to heat it from a low temperature every time you need hot water. The other school of thought says that is baloney and it's cheaper to heat as needed. Which is correct?

Also, we're currently paying for electricity at a pretty high rate and in monitoring the usage I decided to switch the refrigerator to gas. That seems to have made a far bigger dent in our electricity usage than does switching the water heater to gas, which I also did, but earlier.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 01:31 PM   #6
Ozz
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
Brad, what happens is, that if you use any hot water, the heater will cycle and keep the water at a very hot temp. The cold water coming in to replace the hot water used, will cycle the heater on. With a timer, it will only cycle on at a pre-set time.
Turn yours off, then use the water as you would normally when living in it, you will see the need.
Or not. If you don't think you need one, don't put one on. We saw that we could use one, to save money.
Ozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 02:16 PM   #7
bsmeaton
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
I'm only part timing, so I would never need one. Just curious.
bsmeaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 02:28 PM   #8
scductman
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Eastern
Posts: 1,155
M.O.C. #7270
I just removed my breaker panel & control panel on the wall then wired a paddle switch in line now I can cut it on & off from inside. like brad we part time so I wanted a way to control it without going outside or turning off the breaker when setting up or breaking down. bobby
scductman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 04:38 PM   #9
OntMont
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Haldimand County
Posts: 2,413
M.O.C. #122
We installed an on/off switch for the WH, but more for power management when we are on a 30 amp site, than for power conservation. Maybe I'll try shutting it off a night when we get to the RGV and have to start paying for power. Right now the State of Alabama is providing our trailer with 50 amp power, water and sewer for about $12 a day, that's hard to beat! (Unfortunately, we came home for Christmas, and are not in Alabama to enjoy it).
OntMont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 04:31 AM   #10
berridge
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Catharines
Posts: 176
M.O.C. #6415
My main concern with an inside control for the hot water is as OntMont stated. When we are on 30 amp service I like to heat the water overnight and then shut it off. As Brad pointed out the water stays hot for doing dishes during the day. When we arrive in the RGV, where electricity rates are in the 14 cents/KWH range, we tend to use the propane. Thanks to all for the replies re a control. I've added this to my to do list for Jan. We left the Monty in Gulf Shores to come home (Ontario) for Christmas but will be on our way south very shortly.
berridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 07:07 AM   #11
OntMont
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Haldimand County
Posts: 2,413
M.O.C. #122
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by berridge

We left the Monty in Gulf Shores to come home (Ontario) for Christmas but will be on our way south very shortly.
That is exactly what we did! Where are you in Gulf Shores? We are at the State Park. In Ontario, we live in Haldimand County near the north shore of Lake Erie.
OntMont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 12:37 PM   #12
ols1932
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
I'm curious as to why our unit came with the hot water heater connected to its own breaker in the breaker panel. I hear owners of newer units complaining that there is no inside switch. When did Keystone change their wiring for the heater?

Orv
ols1932 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 02:48 PM   #13
HamRad
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 5,316
M.O.C. #15
ols1932,

Doesn't the wiring have mostly to do with the total amount of amps on any given circuit? Perhaps they somehow have a larger capacity on later models and can thus put more than one device on the circuit.

Good question. Perhaps some of the electrical gurus can enlighten us.

Happy Holidays,

HamRad
HamRad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 03:32 PM   #14
Ozz
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
The inside switch they are complaining about must be for the 120 volt feed, I guess most are outside. The Propane is inside on all, I would imagine.
Controlling the 120 volt heater with the breaker should be discouraged, as the breaker will arc when under a load, they are not designed for that, switches and timers are, if properly designed and sized.
Each load (sizable load) is on it's own breaker, micro-half time oven, and H.W. Heater, you would be in danger if you had lighting and a resistance load such as a hot water heater on the same breaker, the wires would burn through in a short condition before the breaker would trip on lighting and a shared Hot Water heater circuit.
Hope that made sense.
Ozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2007, 04:22 AM   #15
ols1932
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
Ozz,
Our 2000 model came with the normal 10 gal Suburban heater with the electrical switch on the outside as well as a separate breaker in the breaker panel. The propane igniter switch is on the control panel inside the rig. I was just curious as to why all the units didn't come with a separate 120 volt feed breaker in the breaker panel for the water heater. I just naturally assumed that since ours is sooooo old, that they would have followed suit with all the newer models.

Orv
ols1932 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2007, 04:27 AM   #16
Ozz
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
Hi Orv,
All units should have a dedicated water heater breaker, I think people are complaining that there is no inside switch for shutting off the 120 volt power.
Another way, (and easier) of shutting off the hot water heater on 120 volts is to cut into the on-off switch outside, and installing a switch in that line. The wires will be accessible inside the unit on the backside of that flange.
Ozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2007, 06:59 AM   #17
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Orv, the new ones are the same way. I think what's being suggested is there should be a separate, non-breaker, switch for the electrical element.

We also use the breaker as the inside switch but the only time it gets switched is when we are paying for electricity. Then we may switch to propane only by turning off that breaker and turning on the propane switch. We do this only if it makes fiscal sense after comparing propane and electricity rates. Here in Benson where we are charged electricity at .14/kwh and propane is 2.90/gallon, tax included, it's pretty much a wash as far as I can tell. But the propane side seems more efficient so we're running the water heater and the refrigerator on propane. I was amazed at how much less electricity we're using since switching the fridge to gas. That puppy must really suck up the electrical juice.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine Block Heater Timer with Temperature Control bobcat92 Tow Vehicles & Towing 4 10-05-2014 05:11 AM
Heater Control - Trouble Code ? CaptainRandy Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 1 02-04-2012 10:35 PM
Another water heater mod: Timer control install Ozz Additions & Improvements 8 08-26-2011 10:21 AM
apollo heater control replace Montana_5066 Repairs & Service 1 11-21-2006 05:33 AM
2005 heater control problem Montana_5172 Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 3 01-18-2006 02:09 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.