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05-20-2009, 03:45 PM
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#1
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edmond
Posts: 47
M.O.C. #5345
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Wheel Bearings
How often is it necessary to lube wheel bearings, mileage wise. I have the grease zerts on the wheel hubs. How can you tell when the hubs are full of grease?
Larry Sproul
2005 Mountaineer 297RKS
2003 Duramax
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05-21-2009, 02:31 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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We're supposed to lube the bearings every 12,000 miles or annually, as needed. Don't overuse the grease gun on those zerks. I did and put in too much grease. One or two pumps should be sufficient, though there are others who will tell you to pump until you see the old grease coming out. In my opinion, that's asking for trouble.
Orv
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05-21-2009, 03:29 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,133
M.O.C. #6433
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by ols1932
....though there are others who will tell you to pump until you see the old grease coming out. In my opinion, that's asking for trouble.
Orv
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Obviously aimed at me. But given the choice of following the manufacturer's instructions or someone's opinion, I will follow the manufacturer's instructions.
I agree with the 12,000 miles or 12 months though.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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05-21-2009, 07:08 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by BB_TX
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by ols1932
....though there are others who will tell you to pump until you see the old grease coming out. In my opinion, that's asking for trouble.
Orv
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Obviously aimed at me. But given the choice of following the manufacturer's instructions or someone's opinion, I will follow the manufacturer's instructions.
I agree with the 12,000 miles or 12 months though.
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BB TX, No, I didn't obviously aim it at you because there are many out there who have said the same thing you did (as I go back and re-read what you said). I just wanted to express my experience with the self-greasers and providing the caution that Dexter Representative who happened to be at MOR/ryde cautioned me with. When I had MOR/ryde's Individual Suspension axles installed in 2003, I asked about the E-Z Lube addition. Both MOR/ryde and the Dexter Rep. cautioned me again and BOTH recommended against having them installed. When I asked them why they were on the Montanas, their reply, in unison was, "Because you will buy them."
Please don't take offense with my post. No offense was meant. I try to be as straight forward as possible with my posts and post only from what I know and from my experience.
Orv
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05-21-2009, 07:27 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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BB,
No It was aimed at me not you. Since I am one of the oldest forum members I always told everybody to do it that way. But when I last changed my seals and linings, I have now become a two squirt man while rotating the wheels.
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05-21-2009, 07:49 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
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Quote:
quote:"Because you will buy them."
Orv
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I really don't understand what that line has to do with greasing wheel bearings, regardless of how you do it. I would take it they were saying you would pay extra for the EZ lube axles, and it wasn't worth the extra cost. I might well agree with that opinion myself. I have never used the zerk on the bearings, and may well never use it. If I had bought the RV used, I might well have pumped grease through them like BB_TX. However, I know the history of the RV, and see no need to grease the bearings any time soon.
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05-21-2009, 08:08 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Layton
Posts: 1,048
M.O.C. #666
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This thread will rage on. I consider pumping grease into the axle zerk until it exits may be fine for bearings that will be imersed in water at times (boat trailer) but not needed for hiway type use. I also believe that the grease takes on a more liquid state when hot and lubes that way. I don't know of many (if any) that fill the bearing hub enclosure fully with grease when they hand lube. Every time I have done it (which may be wrong) is that I filled the bearing with grease by hand and then inserted it into the bearing race and finished assembly. I suppose what works without failure is the right way, whichever way it is accomplished.
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05-21-2009, 08:12 AM
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#8
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW
Posts: 255
M.O.C. #7895
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by lightningjack11
BB,
No It was aimed at me not you. Since I am one of the oldest forum members I always told everybody to do it that way. But when I last changed my seals and linings, I have now become a two squirt man while rotating the wheels.
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Same here...two squirts seems to work fine.
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05-21-2009, 08:59 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,133
M.O.C. #6433
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No offense taken.
But I have a concern about not adding more grease than a couple pumps. The concern is in not getting grease to the outer bearing and causing a failure of that bearing. If you put two squirts into the palm of you hand, you will see just how little grease that is.
If you look at the cut away view on the Dexter web site, you see that the zerk is ported to the inner bearing. To get grease to the outer bearing, grease has to flow thru the inner bearing, thru the chamber between the bearings, and finally into the outer bearing. And it is "uphill" to the outer bearing. If the outer bearing was dry, it will still be dry after a couple pumps. The only way to know for sure that you get grease to the outer bearing is to pump until you see grease come out the front ports.
I think we would all agree that the best thing to do is to disassemble the whole thing, clean and inspect the bearings, pack by hand, and reassemble. But sometimes just not easy to accomplish.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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05-21-2009, 10:49 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie
Quote:
quote:"Because you will buy them."
Orv
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I really don't understand what that line has to do with greasing wheel bearings, regardless of how you do it. I would take it they were saying you would pay extra for the EZ lube axles, and it wasn't worth the extra cost. I might well agree with that opinion myself. I have never used the zerk on the bearings, and may well never use it. If I had bought the RV used, I might well have pumped grease through them like BB_TX. However, I know the history of the RV, and see no need to grease the bearings any time soon.
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What they meant by that was that we would be willing to pay for the ease of greasing the wheel bearings. Nothing more, nothing less. It's just like all the little gadgets you can buy at Camping World. They are there for us to by, whether they are useful or not.
Orv
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05-22-2009, 10:28 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Several years ago during a brake check and bearing repack our dealer's service manager, whom I trust explicitly, told me I was putting too much grease into those zerks. He said no more than two squirts per year. I said we fulltime and do a lot of miles. He said, two squirts once per year. I've done as he said ever since and have had no bearing problems and no grease on the brake linings. If you put in too much it squeezes past the seal onto the linings, making your brakes useless. Others may disagree with my approach but what Jim told me has proven accurate to me. We have him check brakes and repack the bearing every other year.
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05-22-2009, 10:57 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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I put in no squirts a year. 3 out of 4 of my seals were blown out of the factory(Dexter not Montana's) Due to over greasing by dexters admission.(they paid for the brakes and seals) We let the dealer pull the wheels and inspect the bakes and seals. They have not yet needed grease. (2 1/2 years. We do a lot of miles. Oh.. I am not handy and very lazy, pulling the wheels is out of the question.
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05-22-2009, 02:56 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wappingers Falls
Posts: 1,303
M.O.C. #6263
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I don't use the Zerks, never will... I pull the wheels, wash out old grease, inspect cups cones, repack cone, and reassemble. As I'm a weekender I'm considering moving this to every other year. I just completed this task along with installing new magnets...gonna be doing a local trip to kick off the season next weekend.
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05-26-2009, 05:01 PM
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#14
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Jose
Posts: 389
M.O.C. #2277
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Has anybody ever used a bearing packer? It's basically a conical base with a zerk on the lower end, and a smaller conical top that's pressed down firmly on the top of the bearing inner race. Grease is pumped in at the bottom and it flows up & through the bearing.
Kinda like this (The === is the bearing and the ### is the grease)
|--V--|
|\===/|
|#\#/#|
|#####|
It seems to me that Dexter has basically built a bearing packer into the axle/hub assembly, with the improvement of spinning the cage/pins while grease is injected.
I've read dozens of posts, here and elsewhere. I'm going to very carefully modify what Dexter says is the proper procedure based upon the failures most often cited. I.e. Seal failure.
My Plan: (call me crazy if you will)
1. Warm the new grease up to 150F
2. Tow my Monty at least 10 miles to warm up the hubs
3. pump the new grease in VERY slowly while spinning the wheels.
4. if the grease coming out looks clean a few pumps will do it, if it's dirty I will pump until it's all replaced.
5. If I blow a seal then I am crazy!
BTW, we have only about 5,000 miles on our unit so I really don't feel the burning need to take it apart to inspect the bearings/races/seals unless some ugly crap comes out while pumping.
Grins
Muddypaws
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05-26-2009, 08:52 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Layton
Posts: 1,048
M.O.C. #666
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This is an interesting thread. I never have put grease in my hubs until it flowed out. I have never packed a wheel bearing and filled all the empty space inside with grease (I have packed a lot of bearings). I wonder if I am doing it all wrong. I do once a year maybe put in a couple of pumps of grease after towing for awhile when things are warmed up and do not agressivly pump. I take it slow to ease the pressure on the seals. I think that the grease will liquify when running. I also think that a full hub of grease in not desirable except maybe in a boat trailer that is submerged in water or other type of imersed bearing. I suppose that if a bearing sits for long periods without grease, it could rust so maybe the reason for the full hub??
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05-26-2009, 09:03 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Layton
Posts: 1,048
M.O.C. #666
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1Glob grease onto your palm. You need to use grease that has a high melting point.
Step 2Force bearing edge into the grease. You want to make sure the grease fills all the crevices of the bearing. You need the bearing to be packed with grease.
Step 3Replace the inner bearing. You'll need to install a new inner seal, since it was broken to remove the inner bearing.
Step 4Grease between the rollers, cones and cage. You want to maintain proper lubrication to prevent bearing damage.
Step 5Pack grease into the wheel hub. You want the depth of grease to be level with the outside diameter of the cup.
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05-26-2009, 09:07 PM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Layton
Posts: 1,048
M.O.C. #666
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and another one:
Safe jacking
Park the trailer on firm and level ground.
Block the trailer tires on the opposite side securely so that no forward or rearward movement is possible.
Jack up the trailer following the manufacturers instructions.
Secure the trailer on jack stands of adequate capacity front and rear.
Removing the wheel and hub
Undo the wheel nuts and remove the wheel
Pry off the dust cap using a flat bladed screwdriver
Straighten out the cotter pin that holds the bearing nut and remove it
Remove the bearing nut and washer
Gently pull the brake drum forward while cupping the hub opening with your hand to keep the front bearing from falling to the ground. The outer race stays in the drum, while the inner race and roller bearings come out as an assembled unit.
Place the front bearing, bearing nut and the bearing washer in a clean container
Removing the grease seal and rear bearing
Place the brake drum face down so that the back of the drum is accessible
Pry out the grease seal. This will be replaced in a further step.
Lift out the rear bearing and place it in the container with the rest of the parts
Don't mix up the bearings if you are doing more that one wheel at a time - each bearing must mate with it's original race ( no prejudice intended). The bearings wear in by a certain amount and need to be matched with their respective counterparts.
Inspection
Thoroughly clean the bearings and other parts in a solvent (not gasoline!) until all the old grease is removed. Set the aside to dry completely or blow dry with compressed air. Don't use the air pressure to spin the bearing, as damage could result to the bearing or to your person!
Clean the hub and spindle.
Inspect the bearing races for heat discoloration, pitting, scoring and any unevenness.
Inspect the bearing for damage as above. Any out of round rollers, cracked roller cages and rough running will indicate replacement is required.
The bearing and both inner and outer races must be replaced as a set.
Inspect the brake drum for pitting and excessive wear especially if the brake shoes were allowed to wear down to bare metal.
Inspect the brake magnet surface for excessive or uneven wear.
If the brake drum and magnet have been saturated with grease from a failed seal, replace the shoes and magnet, and have the drum turned or machined to renew the surfaces.
Hand packing the bearings
Place a walnut sized gob of wheel bearing grease in one palm.
Grasp the bearing with the other hand so that the wider end is facing the grease.
What you want to do is force the grease into the gap between the inner race and the outer cage so that it squeezes up through the rollers and out the top.
Press the bearing down into the grease in a rocking motion and continue until the grease oozes up.
Rotate the bearing 1/4 turn, at a time, and continue until the bearing is completely filled with grease.
Reassembly
Put some grease into the interior of the hub with your fingers. A walnut sized amount is sufficient. Spread it around the circumferance of the hub.
Place the inner packed bearing into it's place in the hub.
Place a new seal on the hub and tap it into place with a hammer until it seats fully.
Be sure to wipe off any grease that finds it's way onto the outer flat surface of seal.
Replace the drum onto the axle spindle, insert the outer bearing, thrust washer and axle nut.
Preloading the bearings
Tighten the axle nut by hand until it is tight. Tighten another 1/4 turn with pliars or wrench.
Spin the drum several times to distribute the grease evenly in the bearings.
Back off the nut with the pliers or wrench, until loose and then retighten finger tight.
Insert a new cotter pin to lock the nut in place and bend it over the spindle.
Re-install the dust cap, wheel and tire, and hubcap.
Now is a very good time to adjust the brakes. See the brake adjusting page for more info.
Wash hands vigorously for 15 minutes!
Replacing the bearings
The bearing must be replaced with a complete new bearing with the inner and outer races.
The inner races are pressed into place in the hub and must be driven out.
Use a brass punch to catch the edge of the race by passing it through the inverted hub. A few good whacks with a hammer should drive out the old race.
Place the new race into position and tap it in with the hammer and punch. Take care not to mar the surface of the race.
Pack, reassemble, and preload the bearings.
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05-27-2009, 02:17 PM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by MuddyPaws
Has anybody ever used a bearing packer? It's basically a conical base with a zerk on the lower end, and a smaller conical top that's pressed down firmly on the top of the bearing inner race. Grease is pumped in at the bottom and it flows up & through the bearing.
Kinda like this (The === is the bearing and the ### is the grease)
|--V--|
|\===/|
|#\#/#|
|#####|
I've seen them but never used them. I always used the grease on heel of the hand method. I always felt that way I was comfortable there were no air pockets, etc.
I don't do my own bearings anymore. As fulltime rv'ers we just have no place to do that kind of work. It's a rare rv park that will allow that kind of work.
It seems to me that Dexter has basically built a bearing packer into the axle/hub assembly, with the improvement of spinning the cage/pins while grease is injected.
I've read dozens of posts, here and elsewhere. I'm going to very carefully modify what Dexter says is the proper procedure based upon the failures most often cited. I.e. Seal failure.
My Plan: (call me crazy if you will)
1. Warm the new grease up to 150F
2. Tow my Monty at least 10 miles to warm up the hubs
3. pump the new grease in VERY slowly while spinning the wheels.
4. if the grease coming out looks clean a few pumps will do it, if it's dirty I will pump until it's all replaced.
5. If I blow a seal then I am crazy!
BTW, we have only about 5,000 miles on our unit so I really don't feel the burning need to take it apart to inspect the bearings/races/seals unless some ugly crap comes out while pumping.
Grins
Muddypaws
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05-27-2009, 02:42 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Haldimand County
Posts: 2,413
M.O.C. #122
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Bearings are only half of the story, you also should service your brakes at about the same frequency. Since this requires dismounting the wheels, it not a lot more work to manually re-pack the bearings at the same time. Since these are both very critical components, I have been opting to pay a (competent) mechanic to perform these two services. I do most of my own service work on the trailer, but these two items I leave to the pros.
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05-30-2009, 11:03 AM
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#20
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: springfield
Posts: 74
M.O.C. #3421
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I just pulled mine apart after 3 years.Always used grease zert had 1 greasey brake assy.After you see the cheap seals they put in you will know why they don't hold grease.New seals from napa with metal flanges on both side of seals were 28.00 apeice.Packed bearings by hand re installed every thing then hit her with grease gun until it shot out front bearing.Used that green grease from speed chanel 8.00 a tube.
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