Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-16-2016, 03:32 AM   #1
woodman
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Elkhart Lake
Posts: 141
M.O.C. #12256
Leaf springs

I was advised by a trailer mechanic that leaf springs on the Montana need to be replaced every two to three years based on age and mileage. The person who advised me of this was a roadside mechanic who replaced my leaf springs and a new G614 tire on Monday of this week, as we were proceeding eastward on I-90 out of Gary Indiana. We were traveling around 60 mph when I noticed the trailer going diagonal behind me. Fortunately we were able to stop as the rear tail of the Monty had drifted near the rail guards of the highway, thus I was able to avoid any other physical damage to the trailer. If you can imagine what it's like to have your rear axel at a 30 degree to the front axle, there's lots of burning rubber and your trailer is not happy. Turns out it was a single bolt that broke where the leaf spring attaches to the axle probably after we hit a bump in the road. The U bolts were fine and tight. My prior maintenance had been to grease the suspension zerk fittings, but not to replace springs. This is another one of those, "who really does this?", moments. Maybe another reason to go with an independent suspension. Ironically, we were heading to a dealership to take our Monty in for a trade. Total damage costs were over $2K for a new tire and leaf springs. This could have been a lot worse considering it could have been in downtown Chicago traffic and worse weather elements. I am heavily considering changing to an IS and disc brakes with my new unit despite the cost.
 
woodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:40 AM   #2
mhs4771
Montana Master
 
mhs4771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sebring
Posts: 3,657
M.O.C. #9969
You won't regret changing to the IS and Disc Brakes, the next upgrade from there is 17.5 wheels and tires.
__________________
Michelle & Ann
2018 Chevy 3500HD High Country DRW 4X4 Crew Cab w/Duramax/Allison, Formally 2010 Montana 2955RL, Now Loaded 2016 SOB, Mor/ryde IS, Disc Brakes & Pin Box, Comfort Ride Hitch, Sailun 17.5 Tires.
mhs4771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:44 AM   #3
K0LCB
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Arroyo City
Posts: 3,110
M.O.C. #13395
The IS and disc brake conversion is the best mod I've made. Improved ride and stopping distance is worth more than the cost
K0LCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 07:22 AM   #4
dieselguy
Montana Master
 
dieselguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,261
M.O.C. #3085
I've not heard of the leaf spring replacement advise you were given. I personally have owned several fivers, a couple of car trailers, as well as several farm type trailers and have never replaced springs on any of them for a just because scenerio. In today's world of "quality" products ... there's no guarantee what you buy new won't be worse than what you already have. I have no doubt the IS and disk brake setup is the "cat's meow" for those leaning towards full time use, but it's just not on the "bucket list" of this recreational camper.
dieselguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 07:38 AM   #5
waynemoore
Montana Master
 
waynemoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ.
Posts: 1,811
M.O.C. #10552
This is just my opinion but that guy is full of crap. Next time you are in a camp ground ask how many people change out their springs every two or three years?
__________________
Wayne and Ann Moore
2015 Ford F-350 King Ranch
Firestone air bags, bed saver.
Add 40 GAL tank in bed.
waynemoore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 07:57 AM   #6
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
There is a heck of a lot of campers running around with bad springs including most on MOC. Sounds like BS to me.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 07:58 AM   #7
RKassl
Montana Master
 
RKassl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Fall Creek
Posts: 1,328
M.O.C. #3699
X2
__________________
Bob and Nancy Kassl Fall Creek, Wisconsin
2015 Montana 3440RL Legacy Edition, G614's, Pressure Pro TPMS, Dish Tailgaters
2016 GMC Sierra Denali 3500 CC SRW, Iridium Metallic, Duramax Allison Transmission
RKassl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 08:03 AM   #8
WaltBennett
Montana Master
 
WaltBennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hanover
Posts: 1,471
M.O.C. #13325
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by dieselguy

I've not heard of the leaf spring replacement advise you were given. I personally have owned several fivers, a couple of car trailers, as well as several farm type trailers and have never replaced springs on any of them for a just because scenerio. In today's world of "quality" products ... there's no guarantee what you buy new won't be worse than what you already have. I have no doubt the IS and disk brake setup is the "cat's meow" for those leaning towards full time use, but it's just not on the "bucket list" of this recreational camper.
X2 on all he said. Sounds like you had a shackle bolt or the shackle itself break causing the axle to shift. That's not caused by the leaf springs. Only reason to replace them is if you've overloaded your trailer quite a bit.
__________________
WaltBennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 12:16 PM   #9
nunya
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moab
Posts: 316
M.O.C. #6756
replaced mine after 9 yrs. started stepping apart and had flattened.30K tow miles, added wet bolt kit and heavy duty shackles. Big difference goin down the highway.
nunya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 01:01 PM   #10
Carl n Susan
Site Team
 
Carl n Susan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
There is a centering pin between the spring and axle. Its purpose is to ensure the axle is properly positioned on the spring. The axles "U" bolts then "lock" the axle to the spring. The "U" bolts should be checked periodically and torqued to the appropriate tension.

The cause of your problem was loose "U" bolts which allowed the axle to shift under braking or acceleration. You wrote the "U" bolts were tight. How did the axle then slide to 30+ degrees? As the angle of the axle to the spring decreases from 90 degrees to a smaller value, the "U" bolt will naturally tighten due to the deflection. It is rare for the centering pin to break, but if it did, the "U" bolts should hold the axle in place.

RichFAA can elaborate on this failure as he is another victim.

Replacing springs every two years is a $$ maker for the mechanic.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB

Carl n Susan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 05:13 PM   #11
Art-n-Marge
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
Send a message via MSN to Art-n-Marge Send a message via Yahoo to Art-n-Marge
I keep my rig about 500 lbs under its Gross weight rating. I have had my rig over 10 years. I've never heard such a thing unless there's some abuse. Admittedly, I don't have that many miles on my rig either and maybe I am one of those who babies my Monty or at least I try to.

I do inspect things often, just to make sure nothing is going awry and I hope nothing does go wrong, but I ain't heading to a suspension shop soon. I hope I haven't jinxed myself.
Art-n-Marge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 01:37 AM   #12
bethandkevin
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Davison
Posts: 786
M.O.C. #12331
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by carl n susan

There is a centering pin between the spring and axle. Its purpose is to ensure the axle is properly positioned on the spring. The axles "U" bolts then "lock" the axle to the spring. The "U" bolts should be checked periodically and torqued to the appropriate tension.

The cause of your problem was loose "U" bolts which allowed the axle to shift under braking or acceleration. You wrote the "U" bolts were tight. How did the axle then slide to 30+ degrees? As the angle of the axle to the spring decreases from 90 degrees to a smaller value, the "U" bolt will naturally tighten due to the deflection. It is rare for the centering pin to break, but if it did, the "U" bolts should hold the axle in place.

RichFAA can elaborate on this failure as he is another victim.

Replacing springs every two years is a $$ maker for the mechanic.
X2 Sounds like the center bolt broke. Must have sheared the head off, a rather unlucky occurrence. Have never heard of replacing leaf springs as a maintenance item, but then again, the greed of some mechanics never ceases to amaze me. It usually shows up when you are in a vulnerable position, as you undoubtedly were. I have fallen victim as well.
bethandkevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 04:37 AM   #13
Capt Kidd
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chico
Posts: 641
M.O.C. #6933
I had a broken spring on my 2011 Monty this last year but the axle didn't move. Had all four spring packs replaced cost about $800.
Capt Kidd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 11:52 AM   #14
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
Hi

In 2013 on the way back from Lincoln Nebraska I had the same thing happen in Missouri.

Mine was a broken bottom leaf of the curb side rear axle caused by loose U bolts. The G614 on the other end of the axel had a groove cut very deep in the rubber but no cords were showing so I didn’t replace it. That was about 30,000 miles ago so the front springs have 90,000 miles on them and show no signs of fatigue.

As for broken bolts we have had one wet bolt fail and one spring hanger fail neither one resulted in damage other than the item that broke.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 01:26 PM   #15
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by carl n susan

There is a centering pin between the spring and axle. Its purpose is to ensure the axle is properly positioned on the spring. The axles "U" bolts then "lock" the axle to the spring. The "U" bolts should be checked periodically and torqued to the appropriate tension.

The cause of your problem was loose "U" bolts which allowed the axle to shift under braking or acceleration. You wrote the "U" bolts were tight. How did the axle then slide to 30+ degrees? As the angle of the axle to the spring decreases from 90 degrees to a smaller value, the "U" bolt will naturally tighten due to the deflection. It is rare for the centering pin to break, but if it did, the "U" bolts should hold the axle in place.

RichFAA can elaborate on this failure as he is another victim.

Replacing springs every two years is a $$ maker for the mechanic.
Yes we had that exact failure on our 06 3400 in 2007.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 02:06 AM   #16
timandsusan
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,296
M.O.C. #5165
It sure looks like the message is look under the RV at the axles, springs, etc. on a regular basis or have it done by a respected shop. If anything does not look OK--get it inspected. Happy travels.
__________________
F-250 King Ranch Crew Cab 2012, Single Wheel, 6.7 L Diesel, Transfer Flow Internal 50 Gallon Fuel Tank, Upgraded Ford Software for 50 Gallon tank, 2006 3475Rl with Mor-ryde King Pin, 2nd AC, 2nd Battery, Pressure Pro TPMS, Wet Bolt Shackle Kit
timandsusan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2016, 09:08 AM   #17
mazboy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Rapids
Posts: 1,896
M.O.C. #9561
since we're on the subject, what are the toque sittings for everything around axle?
mazboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2016, 12:57 PM   #18
Carl n Susan
Site Team
 
Carl n Susan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mazboy

since we're on the subject, what are the toque sittings for everything around axle?
Lug Nuts (8 Bolt Wheels) - 110-120 Ft. Lbs.
Lug Nut Reference


U Bolts (7K axle - 1/2" with 3/4" nut) - 60 Ft. Lbs.
U Bolt Reference


Carl n Susan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2017, 04:59 PM   #19
Wheelhouse
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Aptos
Posts: 427
M.O.C. #11462
Yes, the leaf springs can break. We were on a back road just outside of St. John, New Brunswick, when all of a sudden, a tire blew. Pulled off to side of the road and I'll be darn, " BROKEN LEAF SPRING". You cam imagine what went through my head when I saw that in the middle nowhere. I changed the tire and headed for the rv park for the night. When we got up to leave, we found out you had to take a ferry across the river, ka-ching ka-ching went through my head again. Jack-pot, the ferry we free because New Brunswick wouldn't put a bridge across, so FREE it was, lol. We found St. John Spring shop, and they were GREAT. Total cost to replace the leaf spring and redo all 8 spring bolts and sleeves, $250 Canadian dollars. Such a deal. I pulled in at 10 am and was out by noon. Recommend recommend.
Wheelhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2017, 05:59 PM   #20
Art-n-Marge
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
Send a message via MSN to Art-n-Marge Send a message via Yahoo to Art-n-Marge
I use very close to Carl n Susan's numbers... 115 ft/lbs for the lug nuts at the start of any tow trip (right in the middle of the 120-110 recommendation), and 60 ft/lbs for U-bolts on my 6,000 lb axles. All four tire weights last I weighed them and the weight was actually between 2,600 and 2,800 lbs per tire or all under the 3,000 lb rating of each wheel on a 6,000 lb axle. 11 years (in March) of ownership and other than a few tire problems (not believed to be suspension related) and I am happy with my rig combo.
Art-n-Marge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Leaf springs broken mboys Repairs & Service 17 07-29-2017 06:52 AM
leaf springs and axles thegumbos Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 7 10-14-2016 08:11 AM
Leaf Springs Neil.M Maintenance 6 09-23-2012 03:02 PM
09 3400RL & Leaf Springs 8e3k0 Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 8 08-18-2010 03:32 PM
leaf springs on the 3400 Gene Chaltry General Discussions about our Montanas 6 06-20-2007 05:21 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.