Warning re solar gland & howto pull new wires - Page 3 - Montana Owners Club

docmoose · 03-01-2021, 08:36 AM

There are 4 210W panels for a total of 840W in series.

docmoose · 03-01-2021, 08:48 AM

As others have stated it comes down to a matter of the math and the rating/cost of your MPPT. I have a Victron 150/85. Since they are 12v panels the amps are higher. Series will only work with a very large, or multiple controllers.

No worries though! Thanks to all of the help I was able to snake 6AWG down next to (not inside) of the vent pipe using a 1/4 inch fish pole. This vent is very close (3 feet) to the existing Jaboni port. I was hoping to then fish it over under the roof but couldn't make that work given the tight space, so I'm just running it over on top with some conduit. I took out the Jaboni ports and added a junction box to wire the panels two in series and then parallel. Solid design, I think, thanks to Continuous Resources out of Utah. Video to follow! Thx again.

bcrvman · 03-01-2021, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docmoose

As others have stated it comes down to a matter of the math and the rating/cost of your MPPT. I have a Victron 150/85. Since they are 12v panels the amps are higher. Series will only work with a very large, or multiple controllers.

No worries though! Thanks to all of the help I was able to snake 6AWG down next to (not inside) of the vent pipe using a 1/4 inch fish pole. This vent is very close (3 feet) to the existing Jaboni port. I was hoping to then fish it over under the roof but couldn't make that work given the tight space, so I'm just running it over on top with some conduit. I took out the Jaboni ports and added a junction box to wire the panels two in series and then parallel. Solid design, I think, thanks to Continuous Resources out of Utah. Video to follow! Thx again.

That's confusing. In the previous post you said 4x210W which likely means each panel is 21Vx10A so 4 in series is roughly 84Vx10A. That will easily work with a 150V (150/85) MPPT.

PNW Fireguy · 03-01-2021, 10:34 AM

I think that two different scenarios have been discussed within the thread leading to the confusion. Earlier someone posted that they were using a100/20 MPPT charger. The Hitech panels have a Voc of 24.9 v Four of them in series will exceed the 100v input with temp corrected Voc. A 150/85 would be the correct choice with respect to voltage in that scenario. I have two strings of six panels in series resulting in an uncorrected voltage of about 150Vdc output from each string. With recent US temps my array would have easily surpassed the input limit of a 150v charge controller. This is why temp correction is very necessary. In our case a 250v charge controller met out requirements though the two strings will never put out anything near the 60 amp limits of the controller. The array can push near 200v in cold weather.

docmoose · 03-01-2021, 10:48 AM

Have I mentioned I already ran the 6AWG?

The panels are 12v but the VOC is considerably higher. This was directly from Victron:

"Hi Daniel, I believe the VOC would be above 150VDC if you wire them all in series, check your panel specs to confirm. you do not want the VOC to be anywhere near 150V."

Continuous Resources said the same.

Also leaves the option to add more panels down the road. The pre-wired 10AWG is good for some applications but I believe would max out at two 300W Jaboni panels.

PNW Fireguy · 03-01-2021, 10:59 AM

4 Hightec 210 watt panels wired in series will not exceed 150v Voc even if temp corrected for average US contiguous 48 temps over the past 5 years.

66 Galaxie · 03-01-2021, 01:06 PM

FYI, the solar prepped changed between 18 and 19. In 18 it would have been wired for a pwm charger that would have been mounted in the cabinets. in 19 they started running the wires to the basement and then to the battery because they switched to an MPPT charger. The Jaboni panels operate around 30v which is why they can run the 10 awg and keep voltage loss down compared to a 19v panel.

66 Galaxie · 03-01-2021, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

I don't think Jaboni Power products are built on Victron OEM parts or components.

The first versions were very similar to Victron. The current versions are not.

PNW Fireguy · 03-01-2021, 01:48 PM

Sorry but I don't understand what the location of the charge controller has to do with utilizing a PWM or MPPT charge controller. Pulse Width Modulation or Max Power Point Transfer charge controllers have no bearing on voltage drop, wire size or installation location. It's merely a different type of technology used to convert photovoltaic enery. I have not seen any information that Jaboni has anything to do with Victron as an OEM supplier.

Please share if you have found such.

66 Galaxie · 03-01-2021, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

Sorry but I don't understand what the location of the charge controller has to do with utilizing a PWM or MPPT charge controller. Pulse Width Modulation or Max Power Point Transfer charge controllers have no bearing on voltage drop, wire size or installation location. It's merely a different type of technology used to convert photovoltaic enery. I have not seen any information that Jaboni has anything to do with Victron as an OEM supplier.

Please share if you have found such.

From Go Power:

Suggested Minimum Wire Gauge
(Cable length 25 ft. max. from solar array to battery bank)
Wire Type Wire size min (AWG) Wire size Max (AWG)
Copper Only, 90°C AWG 10 AWG 4

PWM chargers (GoPower) are limited to 25' of wire length from the panel to the battery according to their owners manual. PWM chargers generally won't work with panels above 25v. Since PWM chargers are basically switches that lower the panel voltage to battery voltage you have to be concerned with voltage drop. If the PWM floats at 13.6 and you have too much voltage drop you'll never get charged. If you aren't concerned with voltage drop you can mount them anywhere you want. You could put the charger on the roof if you want to but you'll have a hard time pulling 4/0 through the walls.

MPPT's that will accept 40+v can be mounted farther away from the panel to shorten the charge cable and reduce voltage drop. Certain OEM's try to meet the 3% drop threshold on systems.

The first Jaboni 100/30 looked and functioned a lot like the Victron 100/30. The two companies were not related in any way.

PNW Fireguy · 03-01-2021, 02:34 PM

Those are limitations specific to GoPower based upon their manufacturing limits of their models. I understand where someone might extrapolate those limits.

66 Galaxie · 03-01-2021, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

Those are limitations specific to GoPower based upon their manufacturing limits of their models. I understand where someone might extrapolate those limits.

Correct. But they picked those limits based on math. Voltage drop from panel to battery changes with wire size and voltage level. They don't want to get calls when the system doesn't work as advertised. If 3% is a limit then you'll have to use larger wire to accomplish the same wattage to the battery with a PWM.

jetskier · 03-01-2021, 06:06 PM

I've stated before I use the factory run 10 gauge wire from the roof to the controller location in the basement. From the controller to the batteries, I changed it to awg 4. My controller is also upgrade from the jaboni 100/30 to the victron 150/85. I'm running 50-58V through the PV wire and max 16-17A depending on outside temp. The 150/85 is rated for 1200W max in a 12V battery setup. The most I've seen on a clear summer day on the monitor is 760W out of the mounted 855W physically on the roof. That's nearly 90% efficiency and fine with me.

Here's a pic of the '19 100/30 Jaboni vs a 150/85 Victron. They look too similar to say there wasn't some rebranding at the time. The Jaboni branded Battery Monitor display works in the Victron and looks nearly identical except for the branding.

66 Galaxie · 03-01-2021, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetskier

I've stated before I use the factory run 10 gauge wire from the roof to the controller location in the basement. From the controller to the batteries, I changed it to awg 4. My controller is also upgrade from the jaboni 100/30 to the victron 150/85. I'm running 50-58V through the PV wire and max 16-17A depending on outside temp. The 150/85 is rated for 1200W max in a 12V battery setup. The most I've seen on a clear summer day on the monitor is 760W out of the mounted 855W physically on the roof. That's nearly 90% efficiency and fine with me.

Here's a pic of the '19 100/30 Jaboni vs a 150/85 Victron. They look too similar to say there wasn't some rebranding at the time. The Jaboni branded Battery Monitor display works in the Victron and looks nearly identical except for the branding.

Nice setup. The 85a victron is great. I really like victron because of the open source support and vrm.

PNW Fireguy · 03-01-2021, 08:43 PM

A knock off manufacturer doesn't mean that it's OEM. Jaboni is not affiliated in anyway with Victron. Victron does not supply OEM product under another brand. There are several blatant knock off's out there however...case in point:
https://www.fangpusun.com/mppt150-45...W6DmDKRlEp4iHw

firestation12 · 03-02-2021, 04:51 PM

If you haven't already solved the issue of how to run the larger wires, I's suggest using the master bedroom closet. select either corner at the back of the closet and install a protective conduit from floor to ceiling. you should have no trouble getting your wires from the basement to the roof.

Boondockboomer · 02-12-2022, 01:36 PM

Wow I just red your post. I have a 2018 Montana 3701. The solar prep wires do not exist in the storage area behind the wall. I looked everywhere for those frackers. You mention cabinet but don’t see them there either. Is it possible behind fireplace?

Boondockboomer · 02-12-2022, 01:40 PM

Where on a 2018 3701 would the wires run to now. Straight to the front of the battery compartment. I see a 30amp fuse that looks like it’s on a #10 or 12 wire?

Daryles · 02-12-2022, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boondockboomer

Where on a 2018 3701 would the wires run to now. Straight to the front of the battery compartment. I see a 30amp fuse that looks like it’s on a #10 or 12 wire?

2019 3130re.
My solar wiring junction is behind the basement wall on the right side.
I mounted my MPPT on this wall and ran the wiring over the gap on top of the wall.

The 30A inline red fuse you found behind the battery is the solar fuse. You can confirm by using a multimeter in the gland on the roof. You will measure 12vdc there. Pull the fuse and it goes away.

Here's a couple of solar prep wiring install videos

Jaboni/Montana solar prep
https://youtu.be/mhE9pSum_nA

Jaboni/Montana solar install
https://youtu.be/gn3BIWaSb4c

Boondockboomer · 02-12-2022, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryles

2019 3130re.
My solar wiring junction is behind the basement wall on the right side.
I mounted my MPPT on this wall and ran the wiring over the gap on top of the wall.

The 30A inline red fuse you found behind the battery is the solar fuse. You can confirm by using a multimeter in the gland on the roof. You will measure 12vdc there. Pull the fuse and it goes away.

Here's a couple of solar prep wiring install videos

Jaboni/Montana solar prep
https://youtu.be/mhE9pSum_nA

Jaboni/Montana solar install
https://youtu.be/gn3BIWaSb4c

Unfortunately that prep wire only exists for 2019 and up. For 2018 which I believe was the year of the original post, those wires don’t exist. I think they are already tied in to a auto reset switch next to batteries.

You may also like: