Price of Fuel and its effect on you - Page 7 - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 06-14-2008, 07:01 AM

Let us hope that this "experience" will be a lesson learned to everyone involved and we can all make changes that will be of benefit.

dsprik · 06-14-2008, 07:26 AM

The trouble is that politicians are too political...

The Dems say we can't drill our way to oil independence. The Republicans say that alternatives are too long in coming. So neither will have nothing to do with the other on political grounds. They are both wrong... We need BOTH and we need them now. We don't need to "drill our way to oil independence. We DO need to make this a large part, though. And NOW. We need to conserve and look for alternatives NOW. Refineries need to be built NOW. And not all concentrated in the hurricane prone gulf.

We need to have the same aggressive attitude that we built this country on.

I like Delaine and Lindy's approach. Vote for the ones who will step up to the plate and help our kids and grandkids - not let them suffer from inaction.

ols1932 · 06-14-2008, 09:37 AM

What would the price of fuel be right now if we had been allowed to drill during the Reagan years or even in the '90's when Clinton vetoed the Congress approved drilling bill?

Orv

HamRad · 06-14-2008, 11:04 AM

I have to disagree with all the folks who say "if only they'd let us drill wherever we wanted". Do you really think the price of oil would go down? I doubt it. What we'd have is a lot more profit for the oil companies. Remember that we are in a WORLD economy and not just a nationalistic one.

What we would have is exactly what we have now but with a lot more holes in the ground! Probably in a lot of places we'd like to visit. But not to see oil wells! All or certainly most of the oil companies are multi-national entities. They owe their allegiance to no one particular country. They are in effect their own countries! They will do what is good for them not any particular country. This is the new way of the world.

Can we adjust and survive? We are fighting to discover that right now. I hope for the best but simply drilling more wells and building more refineries is NOT going to "save" us. This is a much more complicated problem and many things must change before this situation corrects itself.

And for those of us who think that this mess is the result of one political party over the other then you need to look more closely at who has been in power over the past 20 or 30 years. I think there is plenty of room for everyone to take some blame.

HamRad

Mrs. CountryGuy · 06-14-2008, 11:18 AM

HMMM

1901 census, Canada, Jacob Heppler, age 34, is a wagon maker.

1911 census, Canada, Jacob Heppler, age 44 has moved from his home town of New Hamburg, over to Stratford, and is now employed as a Hotel Keeper.

No, this is not a family history lesson, me thinks of it as a lesson in "changing times". Jacob is listed as a wagon maker on the birth records of his children, the first born around 1889.

But, bout this time, those funky things called HORSELESS carriages, made themsleves known. Jacob was either very smart and got out early, or was forced to move on and get a new occupation because there was no call for a wagon maker any longer.

Maybe he was injured on the job, I have no way of really knowing, only what I find recorded in the census reports. He had a family to support, I think he went where he could find employment.

I am no "future reader", but, this sure looks like the kind of thing we are experiencing in 2008. Would love to be around in about another 50 years and look back at all this with the perspective of time.

How is the high price of energy affecting our RVing?? Well, we are sitting home and I have been spending a lot of time on research, as you can see. I found Jacob Heppler this AM.

padredw · 06-14-2008, 12:10 PM

Just a note to say thanks to HamRad with whom I find myself in very much agreement.

And to my friend Carol who shares with me a deep interest in family history and a great openness to whatever life brings.

dsprik · 06-14-2008, 01:51 PM

I also am not blaming one party or the other. I'm blaming both for inaction and the inability to come up with a comprehensive energy plan without politics getting in the way.

Times will always be changing and it's always been painful. There are people who are going to suffer greatly. I just would like to see our leaders come up with something to help ease the pain. It doesn't look like it's going to happen.

BTW, while supply and demand is a factor in the price of oil, speculators have shot the price up about $40/bbl over what it should be on the world market. I (and my kids) could live with $80-$90/bbl. Living with $130/bbl is hurting some of my kids and their families right now and I am upset about what is causing that extra amount.

I'd love to be able to look one year into the future and see what our economy looks like at that point. Good or bad, it sure won't be the same...

billhoover · 06-14-2008, 02:11 PM

Why are gas prices so high and who is to blame?

Congressman Roy Blunt put together these data to highlight the differences between House Republicans and House Democrats on energy policy:

ANWR Exploration

House Republicans: 91% Supported

House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Coal-to-Liquid
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 78% Opposed

Oil Shale Exploration
House Republicans: 90% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
House Republicans: 81% Supported
House Democrats: 83% Opposed

Refinery Increased Capacity
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 96% Opposed

SUMMARY

91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of American-made oil and gas.

86% of House Democrats have historically voted against increasing the production of American-made oil and gas.

tom41 · 06-14-2008, 02:41 PM

I agree with everyone! But...I sure would love to hear ,just once, from the people running for high office, to say..We will do so and so for "THE AMERICAN PEOPLE"! not the D-----D PARTY! that sounds like the politicians are for only the power they can have for one party or the other. Just once couldnt they mention the "Anerican people" and what they can do for us? Guess I'm just to old fashion and dont understand. lol, well I'm sure someone can set me straight..Rich? LOl !

HamRad · 06-14-2008, 03:01 PM

Bill,

Please correct me if I have the wrong information but wasn't it the Republicans that most recently had control of all three branches of government? And going back a few years didn't the same thing happen when RR was president?

More importantly does it really matter? The real issue is we are in a real mess and we need some real leadership to help get us started on the road to recovery. Blame who you want but I want some action (by any Party) to help us survive!

HamRad

dsprik · 06-14-2008, 03:01 PM

I guess it's inevitable that we drifted into politics on this topic. Hard to stay away from it. Sorry, RV Wheels...

I guess the price of fuel and the effect on us is minimal. Our kids are having a difficult time and we are helping them out with suggestions on how to adjust. Unfortunately, two of my daughters have gas guzzling SUVs that they needed a couple years ago here in the NW MI snowbelt with their young toddlers to be safe in these nasty weather conditions 6 months out of the year. Just try putting one of those things by the side of the road with a for sale sign right now. It will rust away to nothing before anyone even slows down to look at it.

As with everyone in these fast changing times, they need to change their thinking, and their value hierarchy, quickly.

tom41 · 06-14-2008, 03:51 PM

Well dave you are right, but, doesn't high fuel prices and politics kinda go "hand n Hand"? I'm always off topic, lol, got my hands smacked a few times.
Tom

dsprik · 06-14-2008, 04:42 PM

Just a few??? Tom, you have some catching up to do...

bncinwv · 06-15-2008, 01:44 AM

I believe some of you are on the right track when you mention the subject of global economies. The growth in both India and China can only be described as explosive!!! India is privatizing coal production simply because the government cannot keep up with it. Both China's and India's growth are maintaining a steady 6-10% ANNUAL RATE. The implications are profound. For every 10 gallons of fuel they require this year, extrapolative logic tells me that they will require 11 next year, 12 the year after, etc., etc. Politicians, governments, etc., etc, have nothing to do with this. Either the world produces more oil and refines more gas as fuel or the demand side of the supply/demand curve quickly becomes the driving force of the prices. It will affect you and as Rich says, we all need to at least think of alternative plans to offset these effects. I am fortunate in that the end result and it's effect on my family simply will be that Dear Old Dad may have to forego retirement for a couple of years. Of course that is not what I had planned, but I will do whatever my family requires to keep on keeping on and pulling the Montana to our various destinations......and I have got to go to a duct tape festival one of these years.....Rich, any pics of duct tape sculpture or do they go that far???? Ha Ha!! Love it!!!!
Bingo

sgtpp214 · 06-15-2008, 02:25 AM

President John F. Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

People ask us how long will we travel and we always say "as long as the health and money hold out". Last year at this time paid $2.97 for diesel, yesterday paid $4.67. Got to work on making the money last longer.

I have cut back the speed to 55 from our usual 65 and mpg has increased from 12.6 to 14.1. No job, no need to hurry, but then may have to get job to afford our travels.

Bought bikes and will use them as much as possible. Only 2 1/2 miles to the coffee shop. The only draw back is the ride home is all up hill, but the legs are getting better. Now if I can just figure how to get the golf clubs attached to the bike and to the course.

I am also reminded that the construction of the Alaskan pipeline was going to solve our oil shortages. Pipeline finished and the majority of the barrels were shipped to Japan and are still going to Japan.

Seems that every year my Exxon-Mobil annual report tells how another refinery doesn't fit their strategy so they are shutting it down or selling it.

Our present refinery capacity is not operating at full capacity.

Finally the GOP controlled the Presidency, the Senate, and the House from 2001 to 2006! The congressional approval rating is only 27% and yet 96% of the incumbents are re-elected.

Wasn't it Pogo that said, "We have met the enemy and the enemy is us"?

richfaa · 06-15-2008, 04:59 AM

"I am also reminded that the construction of the Alaskan pipeline was going to solve our oil shortages. Pipeline finished and the majority of the barrels were shipped to Japan and are still going to Japan" ....according to published reports that can be found via Google @ 20% of Alaska oil is exported to Japan.

richfaa · 06-15-2008, 05:12 AM

The Duct tape festival is so called because there us a huge Duct tape plant in town that produces Duct tape under the Duck tape brand and are major supporters of the festival..It is a huge festival and there are duct tape floats, duct tape fashon showm duct tapes everything. We are now well supplied with Duck tape as they give thousands of rolls away. The head line performers Sat night were "Gary Lewis and the Playboys" a group that was very much a part of the mid 60's. It was a experience to see the 60"s generation there with their grand children taken back 40/45 years..We had front row seats(on the grass) and it was great to go back in time..Now that was a great adventure and it cost not a drop of Diesel fuel. We did not take a camera.....

richfaa · 06-17-2008, 05:16 AM

It is agood thing that this could never happen here..

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1062195.html

dsprik · 06-17-2008, 05:50 AM

Governments across Europe made their own problem there. Greed. "Oh, look. There's something we can tax the snot out of" (I may be paraphrasing). Now they are stuck. Huge loss of revenue if they pull the taxes back out of what they originally thought would be a non-essential product. Now it's critical to peoples lives and it is really pushing them to social unrest.

Charlie just posted on Mexico's increasing problems with subsidies (Mexican gas) and they may be looking at strikes and uprisings there, too, as they will be forced to do away with their subsidies that are costing the govt billions a year.

We need this bubble to burst soon.

HamRad · 06-17-2008, 09:19 AM

Dave,

How long has fuel been a NON essential item in Europe... or anywhere for that matter?

And as for"greed"; Somehow I don't think it is the governments that are the overly greedy in this situation.

And if anyone thinks we are immune to violence they should take another look at our society. We are one of the bloodiest ones on the face of the earth. I have no idea if we will end up resorting to violence but I would not be surprised.

Many of the European countries have had a high tax structure for decades so they are sort of used to high taxes. I think it is just that this time the sharp increase has caught many folks unprepared. If oil prices settle down and wages start catching up with the inflation things will settle down to their usual patterns.

But we should be ready for "things" to happen here. Isn't it Rich who keeps pointing out that there is a "storm" coming?

Dennis

You may also like: