Axle Bracket Warning!

[MacDR50]

Those brackets look woefully under-designed. Just who does the engineering for Keystone? At work this week we had a tire ruined on a closed 7000# trailer by mis-alignment due to worn equalizer bushings and brackets. This unit is part of our rapid response equipment and has to be ready to go on the highway all the time. As a supervisor, the safety of my workers is my first responsibility and I decided to check all the trailers we have to make sure they are all road worthy. All of our 10000-13000# equipment trailers had much heavier brackets than shown on P's unit with either boxed ends or webs inside. Our newest unit had triangular brackets with boxed ends and is welded onto the frame sides with the boxed ends welded to the frame on their top edges.

Just for fun I went out to my own, home built utility trailer and even it looks to have heavier brackets than on the Montana. Guess I will have to add this to my upgrades list. So far it contains GFCI, Mission tires and maybe frame strengthening. Am I worried? Well a bit more but this group and this forum mean I know what for and where to look and usually what is needed to fix these defects/deficiencies.

Just enough seems to be the engineering spec for so many things these days. Just enough when new may get a certification but is not enough a few years or miles down the road. Good brackets, good tires and a strengthened frame may add maybe $1000 to the cost of a unit. I would be willing to pay twice as much for peace of mind. So I will inspect and upgrade a new unit myself at my expense. At least I will know that its wheels will not fall off, it won't lose an axle or twist and crack walls and fittings. My PDI will be exhaustive again thanks to this forum.

Keep those reports coming and on behalf of all us newbies to 5vers and Montana's, a big thank you.

[Okie Guy]

Michael thank God you found this before the two of you were on the road.
I may be a city dweller now but I grew up a farmers kid. We built everything 10 times stronger than those brackets. I will be talking to the dealer about this on Monday. What month was your trailer manufactured? My unit is an 07 but was manufactured at the end of 06.
The guy who did the welding did a very good job. You shouldn't have any problem with the new brackets.
Has anyone reinforced their current brackets? I can't decide if I want to reinforce these or replace them if the dealer won't do it.

[snfexpress]

Our unit was manufactured 12/05 and is a 2006.

I agree with most posts about the brackets and how they are weakened when they are bent.

Yes, we are blessed that we caught this before something catastrophic happened!

[richfaa]

We are not alone.........http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/20783244.cfm

[Leaseit]

In reading the RVIA posts quoted here referencing "Occasional Recreational" use about how they think trailers are used is a problem. So i will put it this way in response to the RVIA referenced comment.
Beachcraft or Cesnia build there recreational aircraft for occasional use, but the FAA does not allow the Manufacturers to build aircraft that are only used part time or on week-ends.
If they did most of the recreational pilots would be pushing up flowers.
So, the Occasional Use statement used by the RVIA does not wash when you have a problem with the brackets failing.

[richfaa]

That is the point.These ARE recreational vehicles and we are being told by the RVIA which is NOT by the way a regulatory entity but advisory in nature what their use is.There is NO requirement or enforcement for the manufacturers to build them to standards any greater than "recreational" In the case of aircraft of any kind the FAA regulates and enforces the standards..not the manufacturer. That's the way it is' I am living in my 3400 as we speak, every day for 4 1/2 months and will live in it for around 7 months this year and drag it maybe 12 K miles or more..that is not recreational /occasional use. I knew how we would be using it when we purchased it and I knew that there was the probability of higher failure due to increased use. My 3400 is giving me the service I expected for a recreational vehicle being used in a manner that it is not fully designed for. The brackets are a example of what I speak and it is as my above post"we are not alone" indicates..a industry proplem.

[MacDR50]

The guys at work and I have been watching this thread with interest. Several are RV'rs and all have various mechanical trade qualifications. The millwrights to a person have said they would add strengthening to the shackles. Our truck mechanic just kinda shook his head and said he wouldn't buy anything built that way. A number of the guys have suggested that they see evidence of high side torque probably caused by sharp turns on a high friction surface such as asphalt or concrete. To demonstrate we took out an empty dual axle flatbed 12,000# trailer with a goose neck hitch and backed it sharply in the yard. As you all know once the TV started to approach a 75 degree angle to the trailer the trailer wheels started to scuff sideways. As it approached 90 the trailer was moving more sideways than backwards. It was actually tipping away from the TV. We repeated this test at various speeds and as expected the faster the backing the worse the scuffing effect. It was food for thought and might help explain these type of failures especially if these extreme angles are repeated back and forth while trying to maneuver into a site.

[snfexpress]

Rich,

Thor acquired Dutchmen in 1991 and I believe that Lippert is the frame supplier.

[richfaa]

Yep...Same or similar frame..same brackets...same problem..However...Mor Ryde came up with the fix for the grand Junction so that leads me to suspect that the brackets MAY be a Mor -Ryde design....the plot thickens.


More from RV net...sounds more and more like this is a Mor-Ryde/Lippert problem and they will correct it if reported..



Interesting. I had the same problem with my 08 Fleetwood Quantum with the Mor/ryde ES system.

Called Mor/ryde and talked to their tech advisor. He told me about the Service bulletins that Lippert had put out, even e-mailed them to me. Then I called Lippert and informed them of what was happening and what I knew.

Next thing I knew, they called my and sent a truck and technician to my dealers facility. I delivered my 5th wheel there and he cut all suspension off the unit, re-measured and reinstalled all new hangers and added the braces between spring hangers and mor/ryde brackets. Now it is super strong. Did a good job too.

If you want to call mor/ryde, talk to Doug Hershberger.

Sundowner


04 Chevy 2500HD, Duramax, ext cab, short bed, 4X4
08 Fleetwood Quantum 325RKTS

[Leaseit]

Rich,
I understand your point and yes i understand the FAA is Regulatory and your right RVIA is not a regulatory agency, but only an "Association" of RV Manufacters, and that where the problem is. Kinda like the fox watching the hen house.
If RVIA says "Occasional Use', i wonder what that means. Is that 10,000 miles a year, 15,000 miles, 20,000 Miles, Pick a number. I'd like to see their actual definition.
As MacDR50 pointed out in the adhoc test they did, the shackle brakets take considerale force backing at sharp angles and if not the right brackets, it might only take one time backing in to promote a failure, even the one "Occational Use" time.
As you discovered from your good search work on the RVnet, the problem sounds like a possable mor/ryde or lippert problem and the qustion becomes, what if any, is the fix and what triggers it.

[richfaa]

I do not recall were this source was but it was stated that the average RV'er used the unit about 60 days a year. I am sure that would vary in different parts of the country and in different climate but it pretty well fit our usage as weekender's in Northern Ohio over the years. Lippert/Mor Ryde recognized the problem and have a fix but that does not mean they know what caused the problem.Before a problem can be corrected the conditions that cause it must be identified .am hoping that Montana/Keystone will do the analysis that will identify the problem causes. We do a pretty good back up turn into our driveway at home and we see no signs of stress on our brackets.

[Dean A Van Peursem]

OK, folks. Could someone give us the bottom line on this? Do we all need to take our RV's into a dealer to get these replaced(fixed)? I just don't understand how Lippert/Mor-Ryde can take the position that they will fix if we notify them. This is a serious saftey issue. What does it take to have a recall? Something isn't making sense here.

[Waynem]

I asked our Dealer just this past Friday. The technician stated that they have never seen a case of this. Has anyone else seen this happening or is it an isolated case.

I also have a 90 degree back-in at the stick house. On my first back-in, the tires were askew considerably when I came to a stop. I thought at the time of what a stress that may be on the tires. Now I see it can be more devastating. On all subsequent back-ins I pull forward into the neighbors driveway (good neighbors) and back straight into my driveway to aleviate the stress. However, I have made some 90 degree turns on the highway that I'm sure puts that same type of stress on the frame.

[richfaa]

Well I would not say it is isolated since it has happened here and over on the RV net forum and Lippert/Mor Ryde have a fix for the problem. How isolated the problem is may be is another story. That Lippert, Mor Ryde, Keystone, Montana would fix something that is broke no matter how isolated it may be is a good thing but IMO not a cause to panic till we and the manufacturers have all information. We looked at ours they are good, Looked at Dave's, they are good..perhaps we should all take a good look at the brackets that information may help in resolving the issue.

[rickfox]

A while back I took a look at all brackets on my 06 3400. A close look showed no cracks and no misaligned brackets. My guess is that we have somewhere around 10K miles on it. Last fall I did install the Dexter EZ Flex shackles - who knows if this will make things better, worse, or no difference - does make the ride better.

My biggest problems are still the cabinet wall just to the right of the sink that I've repaired 3 times, and the kitchen tile that always buckles up when the weather changes. One day it will surely tear, and I will get pi--ed.

[gilles]

Thanks for the info. I have tires wearing prematurely on my 2004 montana 3670RL and I was told about possible axles problems. Will check brackets tomorrow

[snfexpress]

It must not be a "prevalent" problem; if it was, I would guess there would be a NHTSA recall.

There are 8 Montana's in the park we are in and 2 had problems - mine and, coincidentally, our neighbor. Our neighbor's unit is a 2007; ours is a 2006.

As an update on Lippert's financial response, let me say that Bill was very nice to deal with and we received the reimbursement check.

[Bill and Lisa]

Checked my brackets this weekend and happy to say they looked fine.

[exav8tr]

Not sure where these things are, could someone post a pict. Are these the shackles everyone has talked ab out? Would like to know where to start checking......

Thanks

[Fire5er]

Very first post on this by snfexpress has pictures.