TOWING CAPACITY - Montana Owners Club

ALAN · 08-11-2008, 12:18 PM

I know this subject has been beaten to death, but I could use the opinion of those who know. I have a 2005 F250 Super duty Crewcab, shortbed, diesel, tow command etc. According to the label on the truck it is rated at 9800 GVWR, Frt axle 4850, rear 6100 tow rating 5th wheel 15900 and GCW 23000. I weighted the truck with full tank and me on board at 7140, rear axle 2820, assume extra items plus hitch of 415 that brings the truck to 7555 or 2245 below GVWR. We would like to purchase a 3400RL, but it appears this truck can not handle the weight. I think I would be over the GVWR by 185 (king pin 2430 vs my 2245). I assume that I subtract the 7555 of the truck from the GCW to arrive at max trl wt of 15445 which is within limits. Do we look for another trailer? Thanks for your help.

SlickWillie · 08-11-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ALAN

I know this subject has been beaten to death, but I could use the opinion of those who know. I have a 2005 F250 Super duty Crewcab, shortbed, diesel, tow command etc. According to the label on the truck it is rated at 9800 GVWR, Frt axle 4850, rear 6100 tow rating 5th wheel 15900 and GCW 23000. I weighted the truck with full tank and me on board at 7140, rear axle 2820, assume extra items plus hitch of 415 that brings the truck to 7555 or 2245 below GVWR. We would like to purchase a 3400RL, but it appears this truck can not handle the weight. I think I would be over the GVWR by 185 (king pin 2430 vs my 2245). I assume that I subtract the 7555 of the truck from the GCW to arrive at max trl wt of 15445 which is within limits. Do we look for another trailer? Thanks for your help.

Yep, that can open a can of worms. I see 3/4 tons every day with 3400s or bigger behind them. I would just say if you're not comfortable with it, either a lighter trailer or more truck.

exav8tr · 08-11-2008, 01:08 PM

Alan, I have an '06 3400RL and had it weighed and the pin weight was 3000lbs. Don't think I would trust the "book figures" from Keystone.

Wiarton William · 08-11-2008, 02:10 PM

I will second that comment on keystones published pin weights........mine is registered at 2105 lbs pin weight....when weighed,the rv was not packed with anything extra and the pin weight was 2500 lbs.....

TLightning · 08-11-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ALAN

I know this subject has been beaten to death, but I could use the opinion of those who know. I have a 2005 F250 Super duty Crewcab, shortbed, diesel, tow command etc. According to the label on the truck it is rated at 9800 GVWR, Frt axle 4850, rear 6100 tow rating 5th wheel 15900 and GCW 23000. I weighted the truck with full tank and me on board at 7140, rear axle 2820, assume extra items plus hitch of 415 that brings the truck to 7555 or 2245 below GVWR. We would like to purchase a 3400RL, but it appears this truck can not handle the weight. I think I would be over the GVWR by 185 (king pin 2430 vs my 2245). I assume that I subtract the 7555 of the truck from the GCW to arrive at max trl wt of 15445 which is within limits. Do we look for another trailer? Thanks for your help.

You've done the numbers...congratulations, most don't bother. I would not look for another RV...the floor plan of the 3400RL is great, we have not seen another we like near as well. What you need to do is get another TV! I think your number of 415 for other stuff is a little low. My 3400's pin weight is 2500 and my other stuff (hitch, extra fuel tank, passengers/animal, tools, Montana spare, cargo, etc) is 1000...that 3500 exceeds most of the cargo capacitys of 3/4 ton trucks by about 1000 lbs. FYI, your 2005 truck should have a Tire and Loading Information Sticker on the left rear door post. It will give you the cargo capacity to the nearest one pound. Ford's are very heavy, so even though your GVWR is 600 more than GM's, the cargo capacity will be about the same.

As stated, several use 3/4s for the 3400...IMHO, that is not wise...too much RV and too little truck.

sreigle · 08-23-2008, 12:47 PM

Alan, I put 85,000 miles, many of which were towing a 3400RL, on a 2005 F250 crewcab shortbed with 6.0L diesel and automatic. I never had any problems related to towing, no instability, no braking problems, no towing problems. One thing I wonder about, though is why yours has a GVWR of 9800 while mine had a GVWR of 10,000. Mine was a 4x4 and had the tow package. Does yours have the tow package? I don't think 4x4 increases GVWR at all. I'm not sure whether the tow package does.

Your Ford is heavy because it has a very heavy/strong frame and the front suspension includes A-arms and other parts from the F450/550. At least the 4x4 does. I'm not sure about the 4x2. You also have larger brakes than the other brands did on that year, most likely because of the higher ratings (23,000 GCWR) and the heavier truck.

With even that strong F250 you'll likely be over the GVWR/payload rating so you will have to decide that issue for yourself. Keep in mind that while your 2005 (and later) F250 has higher ratings than the other brands one ton single rear wheel trucks, your payload is still that of a larger 3/4 ton. Again, I had zero problems of any kind towing and even got 70,000 miles out of the original tires. In my opinion, it is NO problem for your truck to safely handle the 3400RL. Been there, done that for many, many miles.

ALAN · 08-23-2008, 01:54 PM

Thanks for all your input. I knew I could depend on this forum for good data. I am not sure why the label on my truck and Ford's Towing guide list my truck at 9800. I talked with my dealer and he sent me to a local shop that deals in these matters all the time. They told me that due the construction of the Ford, I could add a leaf spring to my set and increase the weight to 10,600, which would close the gap on my problem. I have two other local guys who have been in the truck business here for 30+ years, and I will verify that adding the leaf would work without causing other problems. I will let you know what I find out. Once again thanks for your help
Alan & Kathy

TLightning · 08-23-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ALAN

I talked with my dealer and he sent me to a local shop that deals in these matters all the time. They told me that due the construction of the Ford, I could add a leaf spring to my set and increase the weight to 10,600, which would close the gap on my problem. Alan & Kathy

This is incorrect information. Nobody, a dealer, truck outfitter, or anybody else can "increase the weight" that is put on the sticker on your door. It might make you feel better, but that's about it.

sreigle · 08-25-2008, 09:52 AM

Actually, it is correct information in that you do increase the capability. I also had asked about that and I asked Ford. Nothing changes the sticker ratings, though, and they'll tell you that. It only changes the abilities of the truck to handle the additional weight. The ratings remain the same. It's kinda like when you add a chip to your engine. You only increase the hp and the torque, not the printed ratings. It may have increased performance, but the manufacturer's ratings don't change.

Charlie · 08-25-2008, 10:21 AM

Well put Steve....however the ratings and warranties go hand in hand. It is each individuals choice to change the TV's capabilities.

TLightning · 08-25-2008, 02:29 PM

I beg to differ...if you cannot increase the number on the sticker, you cannot, technically, increase the ratings.

richfaa · 08-25-2008, 03:47 PM

I don't know the answer or the legalities but here is a example..Steve R has the same 3400 that I do they are just a couple of Months apart. They were both built with the 6K axles and both have the same sticker screwed on the side of the camper. Steve had the 7K axles installed now the 6K sticker is still screwed to the side of his camper but the camper is now just like a 3400 built a couple of months later with a sticker that has increased numbers screwed on its side. Steve's sticker did not change but his 3400 did. I am a firm believer in Manufacturers ratings and specifications and in staying within them however I do not have all the answers.

stiles watson · 08-25-2008, 03:53 PM

Apples and oranges again.

exav8tr · 08-25-2008, 04:45 PM

Lot of differences between "ratings" and "Capabilities". I don't think anyone is saying the ratings will change, ONLY the capabilities. Similar to adding an additive to an engine to increase MPG, similar to adding a chip to increase HP, similiar to adding higher rated tires to increase capabilities, similar to adding an increased air intake system to increase HP or any thing else added to increase the capabilities of anything. I had an extra spring added to my 2500 and the shop that did it said it would increase my capability to carry extra weight by 1000 lbs, but not change the placard on the vehicle. I had a 2001 Dodge with a 3:55 rear end that a speed shop said if I changed the gears to 3.73 or 4.10 I could tow a higher amount, but would not change the manuf data.

As Stiles said: Apples and Oranges.......

richfaa · 08-26-2008, 03:14 AM

In my example the only thing that changed was the addition of 7K axles which increased the OEM ratings and spec's reflected on the sticker screwed on the side. So we are saying that Steve in replacing his 6K axles with the 7K axles did not change the ratings and specs because the sticker did not change but did change the "capabilities" What's the difference??? So if the 6K sticker was unscrewed and the 7K sticker screwed on...would we now be within spec's????? When Ford does a re flash or a TSB on my truck that changes the operating parameters does that not change some ratings or spec??? We saying that as long as that OEM sticker is on the truck or camper the ratings and spec's can never change no matter what modifications or upgrades are done..I don't know but that does not sound right.In my previous job we did many "manufacturer approved" modifications and upgrades that did change the ratings and spec's. We choose to stay within the OEM ratings and spec's but am doubtful that they can never be changed.

Delaine and Lindy · 08-26-2008, 04:06 AM

I think a lot of things we change are in some cases just feel good things. Does it change the rating, only in the owners eyes, GM numbers doesn't change. I also believe all the big 3 under rate they Trucks. Its really just a CYA thing. You will see every day almost, a Truck towing a 5th wheel that is over weight. I try very hard not to add thing to my Truck, first of all the expense and the second in a lot of cases it just doesn't work. GBY..

exav8tr · 08-26-2008, 11:05 AM

Rich, In aviation, if I change an engine to a larger one that will give me more payload, I can request a STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) from the Feds to legally raise the payload. When that STC is issued it is carried in the aircraft to show the additional weight. I have never heard of doing this in the auto industry. I think they would be inundated with requests and do not have the manpower to do that. Plus, if you overload your truck and it breaks, chances are it is not going to fall out of the sky and kill anyone, just lay broken on the side of the road.

Rich, the difference is that the "ratings and specs" issued by the manufacturer are just numbers. The capability is what the truck can actually do. One is paper, the other is reality. Did you never carry rocks or bricks or cement bags in the back of a pickup until the bed was almost on the springs? Then drive the 5 miles to your house to unload then go back for another load? They were intended to be limiting numbers, but so are speed limits. When I added my extra leaf spring to my 2500 I called GM to see if they would change the weight ratings and the answer was an astounding NO.

I am having my axles cut off and the MorRyde independent suspension added. The first thing they do is weigh my trailer and build a system to support my weight, HOWEVER, they cannot change the placard on the side and neither will Keystone. Legally I will be forever overweight, just as anyone else who upgraded to a stronger axle, Unless Keystone will reissue a new placard. However, I know the system being build will support the extra weight and THAT is what I am concerned about....As you know, the '06 3400 has a low cargo capacity with the 6k axles, hence people changing them out. This seems to be a case of the only difference of cargo capacity between the '06 and the '07 3400 was the axles.
Sort of like the extra leaf spring story between the 3/4 and one ton Chevy's......

Delaine and Lindy · 08-26-2008, 01:15 PM

Phil very good example, and the Mor/Ryde suspension is awesome. When I was at Mor/Ryde to have the Disk brakes installed on our Cambridge I watched the install of a IS on a Montana. They will remove all your hangers and weld the new IS directly to the frame and I think you will have a stronger system. Have never talked to anyone who didn't like the IS. Also while I was there I had a RS suspension put on our 3500 DRW however while we were there we bought a Chevy 4500 which had Link air ride suspension and Air ride seats (I wish I hadn't sold the 4500) and only use the system to go to Alabame so didn't use it long enough to know if it made a difference in ride. They also had a different make for diffent weights. Good Luck.. GBY....

Bob & Lee · 09-10-2008, 09:22 AM

The question I have in relation to the weight is in the Ford spec book it lists the cargo weight and the pulling weight . What is it when there is a - in the block as in the payload SRW 4X4 max GVWR all listed and some have the - is that NA or what ? they have a 11,500Lb F350 SRW in the options but no payload. how do you read this thing.

Thanks
Bob

ols1932 · 09-10-2008, 09:30 AM

exav8tr,
Well said. Putting the 7K IS axles on does definitely increase your carrying capacity though there is not certificate "proof" of it. When I had our IS axles installed, we were carrying 11,500 lbs on the original axles. Now, I'm carrying 12,500 lbs. But am I legal, I don't know and I'm not worried about it.

Orv

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