Disc brakes and suspension

[mhs4771]

You don't have to ride in the trailer to see the difference that things no longer move around, doors don't open, etc.
None of our furniture is tied down, yet none of it moves.

[scottz]

Originally Posted by Montana Man

It is said that the IS gives a much smoother ride. How would one know that unless they rode in the trailer before and after the installation?

Good point; I've never ridden in the trailer.

[scottz]

Originally Posted by kingdaddy

My trailer (2011 3580RL) has the MORryde LRE 4000 rubber equalizers from the factory and does a decent job of helping the ride. Yes, I realize the IS would definitely be better.
I'm strongly considering adding a set of shock absorbers to help with the ride quality and just doing the disk brakes.
By far the biggest improvement will be the brake upgrade IMO, the IS suspension would be nice, but for me not something I want to spend the money on.
Probably gonna add the X factory chassis braces too...

I had problems last year with a missing wet bolt and broken spring hanger. On the Cassiar Highway hundreds of miles from help. Finally found a welder, made temporary repairs and ended up at Hendersons; they could not do IS because parts had not been ordered. They replaced all my hangers, upgraded the springs and added the shock kit. Good shop. I also added the x-factor braces. I'm hoping this holds up since I'm into it for about $2500; if not my next step will be independent suspension.

[Montana Man]

Originally Posted by mhs4771

You don't have to ride in the trailer to see the difference that things no longer move around, doors don't open, etc.
None of our furniture is tied down, yet none of it moves.

Our furniture pretty much stays put as well. I think there is a difference between "whipping" the trailer around versus jolts from potholes and such. One poster says his sink cover popped out before and after the IS installation. Mine will do that too when we hit hard. My definition of a smoother ride is one that reduces roughness. I don't think any trailer suspension can reduce lateral g forces from an overactive steering wheel.

[kingdaddy]

Originally Posted by scottz

I had problems last year with a missing wet bolt and broken spring hanger. On the Cassiar Highway hundreds of miles from help. Finally found a welder, made temporary repairs and ended up at Hendersons; they could not do IS because parts had not been ordered. They replaced all my hangers, upgraded the springs and added the shock kit. Good shop. I also added the x-factor braces. I'm hoping this holds up since I'm into it for about $2500; if not my next step will be independent suspension.

Wow...I drove the Cassiar Hwy. on a trip to Alaska back in 1979 (4x4 truck no trailer) and it was extremely "primitive" in those days! I'm sure it's improved somewhat in the last 40 years; there were no RVers on the road back then! I can certainly imagine how you might have suspension issues up there...

[scottz]

Originally Posted by kingdaddy

Wow...I drove the Cassiar Hwy. on a trip to Alaska back in 1979 (4x4 truck no trailer) and it was extremely "primitive" in those days! I'm sure it's improved somewhat in the last 40 years; there were no RVers on the road back then! I can certainly imagine how you might have suspension issues up there...

It is mostly paved now and I didn't think it was that bad; just some places. The junk suspension they put on at the factory would probably have failed anywhere.

I also drove to Alaska in 1979, but not the Cassiar. If I remember correctly, the Alcan was 1500 miles of gravel at that time. I think gravel was actual better than pavement with the sneaker frost heaves; except it sandblasted the paint off parts of my truck. Drove back down during the winter '83 with the same 1/2 ton pickup and cab-over camper pulling the biggest u-haul I could get; that was an experience. Three of us and a lab spent five days in that standard cab. It was too cold to shut the engine off and no place to stop anyway.

[kingdaddy]

Yep, I drove up to Fairbanks on the Alcan which was just as you described. We did it in August so it was light until about midnight and then the sun came back up around 4 am.
After driving all around B.C., Yukon and Alaska, we came back down the Cassiar which at that time was even worse than the Alcan! Quite an adventure
(sorry for the brief thread hijack )

[Twopetes]

@ mazboy
Have not had trouble with the drum brakes, but hanging up the badge in a few weeks and planning on heading into the sunset - which includes mountains. I think discs are more reliable in the long run. I have pulled they West Virginia, and North Carolina several times with no issues, but the Rockies are bigger. Maybe just in my head!!

BTW - I order the disc brake kit from ETRAILER this morning. I will take pictures!

[kingdaddy]

Originally Posted by Twopetes

@ mazboy
Have not had trouble with the drum brakes, but hanging up the badge in a few weeks and planning on heading into the sunset - which includes mountains. I think discs are more reliable in the long run. I have pulled they West Virginia, and North Carolina several times with no issues, but the Rockies are bigger. Maybe just in my head!!

BTW - I order the disc brake kit from ETRAILER this morning. I will take pictures!

Congrats on the retirement! You're gonna love it!

Disk brakes are on my short list of to do items too... BTW, if your truck doesn't have an exhaust brake, I strongly recommend that too. My current truck has one from the factory but my previous truck had a Banks Brake installed and it was worth it's weight in gold!

[Theunz]

I read a lot of owners saying that the drum brakes work fine. The fact is modern trucks can stop a fifth wheel fine even with no trailer brakes...UNDER NORMAL BRAKING CONDITIONS! it’s when you need to make a panic stop that the disc’s are worth their weight in gold.

[mhs4771]

I don't know about modern trucks stopping fifthwheels without brakes. We had a brake issue on a 17K fifthwheel that we had to get towed to the shop, This was a heavy duty 10 wheel wrecker and the driver blew through some Red lights because even that truck couldn't stop our fifthwheel,

[Dave W]

Ride with IFS - try a pre '49 Ford with a solid axle then a '49 on with IFS. I have a '31 Model A street rod with IFS. Night and day difference between one with the I beam and the independent suspension. Yes, IS is well worth it if you do lots of miles. A weekender - maybe not.



A 2011 Ford with a 6R140 6 speed transmission can be manually shifted in either "M" or drive via the paddle. We have easily towed through the Rockies, VA and WV/Appalachians along whith the Adirondacks by anticipating the descents. Yes, an exhaust brake is nice, but not many earlier Fords have one. Bully Dog will take $1300++ of your dollars for one though



Panic stops - 2X at least I've been able to panic stop without sliding tires which are useless when that happens, and avoiding a major accident.


IS - Your choice and $$ if you feel necessary

Disc Brakes - Your choice and safety

[scottz]

Originally Posted by Theunz

I read a lot of owners saying that the drum brakes work fine. The fact is modern trucks can stop a fifth wheel fine even with no trailer brakes...UNDER NORMAL BRAKING CONDITIONS! it’s when you need to make a panic stop that the disc’s are worth their weight in gold.

I'm not worried about normal conditions, I'm worried about the moron who pulls out in front of me. I drove 200 miles without trailer brakes last summer to get to a place that had repair parts, no worries except what it was doing to my truck brakes, but no panic stops either.

[kingdaddy]

Originally Posted by Theunz

I read a lot of owners saying that the drum brakes work fine. The fact is modern trucks can stop a fifth wheel fine even with no trailer brakes...UNDER NORMAL BRAKING CONDITIONS! it’s when you need to make a panic stop that the disc’s are worth their weight in gold.

Re: stopping with no trailer brakes...Sorry, gotta respectfully disagree with that one!
I guess it depends on what you mean by "fine". I consider going down a grade "normal braking conditions" (i.e. NOT a panic stop) but trying to stop in a reasonable distance with a 15k lbs. trailer pushing you with just truck brakes is NOT going to be fine in my book. Can you eventually stop? Sure, but it may involve the vehicle in front of you helping...

Lots of owners also say that drum brakes work just "OK". I agree. Disc brakes are superior in virtually any circumstance which is why you seldom see drum brakes on ANYTHING these days. Trailer manufacturers are fine with selling people stuff that is just "OK".
Personally, I'm tired of having such a vital safety system not be as good as it can be. Same way with tires. I don't buy cheap junk tires and hope for the best. On ANY of my vehicles.

BTW, sorry to be a contrarian...but I strongly feel that a compression brake (in my case a Banks Brake system) is a very good safety enhancement. I LOVE the factory one on my current truck!
Can you do without and get by with it? Of course. Many people survive driving just fine without anti lock brakes or airbags too.
Everyone has their own comfort level when it comes to risk tolerance.

Side note: when I buy my classic car (some day!) it probably won't have the above mentioned safety features. I accept that risk.
Not with my tow vehicle.
My .03

[Theunz]

It seems that some are thinking that I feel that it would be safe to drive with no trailer brakes, it is not! The intent of my post was that under what I would consider normal driving conditions, driving down the hi way or across town with no panic stops or steep grades a modern truck would get the job done without a pucker factor, even without trailer brakes. It’s the adverse conditions where the disc’s can save your life. Because of this I have already converted mine to disc’s. My drums were so sorry that they hardly contributed to stopping at all.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by H. John Kohl

I had the hydraulic disc brakes installed and chose the IS. It is my feeling when you add disc brakes you add 40% more torque (breaking power). I do not feel the factory installed suspension was designed to handle that much more torque. The IS install added about 800 pounds of steel to the RV in suspension frame work.

Safe travel and stay Healthy.

Just noticed your post... I'm new to Montana's and thinking of adding IS, but!
Does it really add 800lbs to the rig? That's a ton of payload to lose.

Thanks,
Brad

[bleedmichigan]

Originally Posted by kowbra

Just noticed your post... I'm new to Montana's and thinking of adding IS, but!
Does it really add 800lbs to the rig? That's a ton of payload to lose.

Thanks,
Brad

Not sure how the IS would decrease payload on the trailer as it’s not riding in the trailer.

[bleedmichigan]

As for disc brakes I ordered a kit from performance trailer braking about a month ago. Install was easy, kit was complete with everything I needed to install. Took maybe 8 hours with a fair number of brakes to sit around at the campground.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by bleedmichigan

Not sure how the IS would decrease payload on the trailer as it’s not riding in the trailer.

Yes, the total payload doesn't change, but adding 800lbs of steel means the trailer weighs 800lbs more, but the GVRW didn't change, so there is 800lbs less "available payload" for everything else I want to haul.

Example, if my unit has a 16,500 GVRW and weighs 14,100 from the factory, I have a sticker total payload 2400lbs. But, if IS adds 800lbs to the UVW, I think I just lost 800lbs of available payload because now my UVW is 14,900...

Yes, no? Thoughts?

Thanks,
Brad

[richfaa]

It does not weigh 800 lbs you can call Mor Ryde and ask them. The 7K Is system added about 300 lbs to our 13 3402.