More Actual Towing Weights - Montana Owners Club

berridge · 07-20-2007, 04:37 AM

These are actual measured weights for my '07 3075 Monty and '04 Ford 250 SRW diesel truck. Trailer is loaded for a long trip and has 10 gal fresh and 5 gal black water.Truck has a full fuel tank. All weights are in pounds and limits are in brackets where appropriate.
truck plus trailer 19020 (GCWR= ?)
truck only 7050
trailer only 11970 (13300)
front axle 3940 (4550)
rear axle 5740 (6084)
trailer axles 9340 (12000)
pin weight calculated 2630 (3075 has high pin weight for its size?)
The tires on the truck have a max load rating of 3042 lbs so it appears they limit the rear axle rating to 6084 lbs. I will upgrade these 235/85 tires to 265/75's with a max load rating of 3415 lbs to increase the safety margin. Both sizes of tire have the same radius. I exceed the max payload for the truck of 2440lbs as the pin weight is 2630 lbs. This is strange as neither axle is overloaded. I also exceed the GVWR of 8800 lbs since the load on the two axles totals 9340 lbs. I think the GVWR limit addresses concerns about adequate braking assuming the load is a "dead weight". However of course the "load" has its own braking system so with my Prodigy controller set to an agressive braking level I feel that I am not operating an unsafe rig. Certainly after travelling over 5000 miles across the continent and back I am very comfortable with the performance of the rig. At no time have I had trouble in heavy stop and go traffic or while at speed on the interstates. I have Firestone air bags to keep things level. Mileage averages about 11 mi/gal US. Comments welcome especially re GVWR.

bsmeaton · 07-20-2007, 06:24 AM

It is good that you weighed in, and also good that you understand you are over your weight limit for both the truck design as well as the tire ratings on the truck.

The rest of it just seems to be gobbledy gook subjective justification that somehow is trying to justify that if you got away with it this long it must be OK, or maybe I read that part wrong?

Andy · 07-20-2007, 08:02 AM

According to your calculations you're only adding 370#s to the pin weight. I would personally find that hard to believe,

but lets assume that’s correct. Your GVWR needs to include passengers, any cargo in the truck, fuel, and any added options to the truck.

The weight of the truck as with the RV give you dry weights without options so as you fill the propane tanks in the camper for example, add options this all adds weight. Also, the weight of the 5th hitch adds another 130 - 150#s or so.

The only way you’ll really know is to stop at a truck stop and weigh the rig. Weigh the truck with a full tank of gas & loaded as you will be for a long trip including passengers.

I’m in about the same situation as yourself, although I have a little more leeway but not much. It’s always nice to be well within the guidelines.

berridge · 07-20-2007, 11:41 AM

Andy, as clearly stated in the first few sentences of my posting, all weights were measured on a scale AND the truck and trailer were fully loaded. FYI it was a CAT scale. Brad if you read the posting carefully you will see that I am not over on the tire rating. I'm sorry that you find my information "gpbbledygook" and "subjective justification". It was simply meant to make actual information available to those interested and to invite intelligent discussion.

Andy · 07-20-2007, 01:49 PM

Wayne, I apologize for the misunderstanding. My error, didn’t mean to provoke, I simply misunderstood your post. Sorry.

PowellsMonty · 07-21-2007, 02:47 AM

My truck is rated to pull 10,700lbs. and our trailer weighs 10,400lbs empty.
A dumb question, how much weight does an average full timer load in their 5th.?
Do I need to buy a new truck if I am 1000 - 1500 lbs. over? Have towed it around the mountains in western NC with no known issues but am thinking of the future and safety and legalities.
Thanks in advance.

Chip · 07-21-2007, 03:26 AM

The pin weight on my 3075 lightly loaded (only necessities for a three week camping trip) is 2700 lbs. Tanks empty.

Weight on my 2500 including the pin was over 3100 lbs.

Since we are planning even longer outings and longer trips we are moving to a GM dually asap while my truck is still worth something towards a trade.

Andy · 07-21-2007, 05:10 AM

Mike, I know not of which I speak! With that in mind here are my thoughts.

I would tend to think that the average couple would add at least 1000 to 1500#s to the weight of their camper.

Even if your 5th weight was just 10700#s which is your rated limit, I would believe that while your truck would handle the load, for a while, you would be putting a strain on the truck that would greatly diminish the useful life of the vehicle.

exav8tr · 07-21-2007, 05:45 AM

Mike and Debbie, According to the RV Safety Education Foundation, the AVERAGE vacationer packs in 1000-1500 lbs worth of stuff, the snowbirder - 1500-2000 and the AVERAGE fulltimer packs in a whopping 2500-4000 lbs. It adds up real quick. Of course, you may be above or below these numbers. We are at 2617 lbs however, this includes a 2nd AC, Sat TV, Slide toppers an extra Shurflo Fan, and 2 window awnings (these were added after market). I need to lighten our load and I think I will start by getting rid of the heavy flex steel furniture and going to something lighter, then maybe lighten our tool box, then start shedding unneeded books, then shoes, then clothes, then food supply and then get a bigger truck and move something to the truck.

My advice would be to get the biggest truck you can afford AND check the CCC (cargo carrying capacity) of any 5'ver
you have or are planning on buying.

Phil

richfaa · 07-21-2007, 06:43 AM

My advice would be to get the biggest truck you can afford AND check the CCC (cargo carrying capacity) of any 5'ver
you have or are planning on buying.

Phil

Now there is some great advise. I always said that if you can't get 1500lbs of stuff into your camper you are not really trying.

sreigle · 07-21-2007, 04:03 PM

The brakes on your '04 F250 are identical to those of the F350 single rear wheel of the same year.

A question, if I may. You mention the 265/75 tires have a rating of 3415 pounds. That's a 16 inch tire on the '04, right? Are you sure about the 3415? My 265/70 17 inchers have a rating of 3195 pounds (I just went out and looked) is why I asked. Or are you going to a higher load range? Mine are load range E. Thanks.

PowellsMonty · 07-23-2007, 07:09 AM

My truck is rated to pull 10,700lbs. and our trailer weighs 10,400lbs empty.
A dumb question, how much weight does an average full timer load in their 5th.?
Do I need to buy a new truck if I am 1000 - 1500 lbs. over? Have towed it around the mountains in western NC with no known issues but am thinking of the future and safety and legalities.
Thanks in advance.

After several responses I guess I need to buy a new truck, talk about sticker shock. What does 1500# over do?
Thanks for your advice!

sreigle · 07-23-2007, 12:56 PM

Mike & Debbie, that 10,700 lbs tow rating for your truck is probably for a conventional pull type trailer, isn't it? I think the tow rating for towing fifthwheels is considerably higher. I'd guess somewhere between 13,000 and 14,000.

Also, that 10,400 on the 2003 3295RK is dry weight and does not include the batteries nor propane bottles. Add a couple hundred for those. It also does not include any fluids in the tanks. I would guess you can count on your 3295RK weighing around 13,500 or more, loaded and ready to go, with all your fulltiming gear.

I don't want to scare you but our prior Montana was a 2003 3295RK. It weighed 14,360. However, that included a washer/dryer stack, high gloss, and 2/3 tank of fresh water. We towed it with a 2005 F250 with the 6.0L diesel and it did a terrific job for the 85k miles we had the truck. We did have to add airbags because the rear squatted just a bit. If yours does not have the overload leaf on the rear springs then you may (or may not) need some help on the rear suspension, also.

Good luck. The 3295RK is a sweet floorplan and the 7.3 is a heck of a towing engine.

PowellsMonty · 07-23-2007, 01:26 PM

Steve, I believe I read that the 10,700# was for a fifth wheel in the owners manual. I did put air bags and it made a bid difference. If I am 2000# over I guess I need a new truck. I have been pulling it in the mountains of NC and been happy with the performance but I want to be safe, but don't want to spend the $$ unless I have to. I never noticed a problem but have been reading this subject here and guess I am way overweight for the truck. It just doesn't know it.
Thanks!

berridge · 07-23-2007, 02:20 PM

Steve thanks for info on brakes. As for the tires I consulted www.tirerack.com where the tire specs for several barnds are given. The three that I am considering are Firestone Transforce HT, Bridgestone Dueler HT, and the Michelin LXT/AS. All three are load rated at 3415 lbs for the 265-16 size according to their specs. I am leaning towards the Michelins, more money but the reviews are all very positve. Hope this helps. Perhaps others will have additional thoughts as to their choice of tire.

Bill and Lisa · 07-24-2007, 08:38 AM

Berridge,
I am confused by one of your numbers in the first Post. You state the GVWR as 8800. Is that for your truck? The reason I am confused is you then talk about the axles only carrying 9340. That is the load on your trailer axles. your truck GVW is 9,680# [front axle 3940 (4550)plus
rear axle 5740 (6084)] which would put you 880# over an 8800 GVWR.

So to recap oneof the outputs from weighing your unit is let you know what your true available cargo capacity is and how your pin weight compares to it. You are 880# over your GVWR/CCC not 190#.

Also not sure where your cargo capacity of 2440 comes from. Normally that number is the GVWR minus the empty truck weight i.e. how much you can add to the truck until you reach your GVWR. In your case your truck loaded with people and supplies weighs 7050. Again, assuming I understand correctly that your GVWR is 8800 llbs your remaining cargo capacity is 1,750. Your pin weight of 2630 exceeds your available cargo capacity by 880#.

You are well within your weights for your trailer so you can look at trying to shift some weight within your trailer towards the rear of the unit (off the pin and on to the axles). You trailer axle limits info says you have the 6000 lb axles but the 13300 trailer GCWR looks low for those axles. Were both sets of numbers (trailer GVWR and GAWRs) off your trailer sticker or did you "correct" the axles weight ratings on your own based on verifying you have the 6k axles? (If you did you should be able to get an updated sticker from Keystone with a trailer GVWR above 14,000. My 07 3000RK new rating is 14160 and based on the weights on the website yours' should be about 30 lbs more than mine.

While I hope this helps I fear it may be confusing....

BIll

PowellsMonty · 07-25-2007, 10:43 AM

Today I ordered an 08 F350,6.4 with the Allison Trans, auto with tow, srw, long bed, Lariat.
Still having heart palpitations.

berridge · 07-25-2007, 01:48 PM

Bill
You are right, I do have an error in my post. The sum of the two loads on the axles is 9680 lbs not 9340 as I stated. This does put me over by 880 lbs on the GVWR. The GVWR value I got from the Ford specifications for the '04 truck. As for the 13300 lbs value I put in brackets after the trailer only weight it is the maximum for the truck again as noted in the Ford specs. The carrying capacity is given as 3835 lbs so my load is well within limits. Thanks for your reply.

Delaine and Lindy · 07-25-2007, 02:24 PM

Powellsmonty, you might want to check your order for the 08 F-350. As for as I know GM Trucks is the only HD Trucks using the Allison. Great TV I'm sure, Good Luck.... GBY...

sreigle · 07-25-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by PowellsMonty

Today I ordered an 08 F350,6.4 with the Allison Trans, auto with tow, srw, long bed, Lariat.
Still having heart palpitations.

That'll do it just fine! Congratulations. Nice truck. But the transmissionis Ford's TorqShift, not the Allison. The TorqShift is a good, strong transmission, though.

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