21’ Ram 2500- tow rating?

[bootstrap]

21’ Ram 2500, 4x4 CC, shortbed, 6.7, 3:73 Tradesman, B&W companion 5th wheel.

Info I’ve found shows payload@ 2500lbs, trailer at 20k GCWR @ 27980 . I’m going to run truck loaded over scales to see actual weight and axle weights.
Ram does not show a pin rating. What’s the best way to determine the pin? I’m guess the empty axle weight vs axle rating @ 6k will put me in the ball park? Truck is a 10k GVWR. Rams coil springs are good for ride but not so much for weight, I usually solve that with air bags.

[Carl n Susan]

Originally Posted by bootstrap

....trailer at 20k GCWR @ 27980....

First, I don't understand what these numbers represent.

...I’ve found shows payload@ 2500lbs....Ram does not show a pin rating..

Yes it does, it is stated as "Payload". That is the carry (not towing) capacity of the truck. It includes driver, passenger, kids, dogs, fuel, and everything in the truck bed (BBQ, wood, tools, etc.) including the hitch and the Pin Weight of the RV.

Your 2004 3255RL (please add this info to your Signature to help in answering your questions) has a GCWR of 12,500 lbs and a listed Pin Weight of 2,220.
Ref: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...EkopxP0sU9aPcD
I suspect the stated Pin Weight is low and based on an empty RV. The usual Pin Weight for a RV is in the range of 20-25% of the loaded weight. Even at 2,220 lbs that leaves only 280 lbs. for everything else. Not nearly enough.

...What’s the best way to determine the pin? I’m guess the empty axle weight vs axle rating @ 6k will put me in the ball park...

Weigh the truck (front axle and rear axle) with the RV attached. Be sure to note the RV weight at the same time. Then unhook, and re-weigh the truck axles without the RV. The difference between the loaded rear (and front) axle weights and the unloaded weights is the actual Pin Weight for the RV (as currently loaded).

[twindman]

The pin weight varies a LOT from trailer to trailer. I have one of the lowest I have heard - 2400 out of total trailer of 14500 for around 17%. Many rigs are at 3200 or more. So yes, you need to weigh at a truck scales. Per cent varies depending on where the axles are in relation to the whole rig. Apparently my axles are a bit forward placing more weight behind the wheels.
Oh, and for truck weight, remember fuel is 7-8 lb. per gallon. I think your truck probably has only a 25 gal. tank, as opposed to my 2012 Chevy at 36 gal. Add in 2 bodies and the hitch itself you are probably at 600 lb. Doesn't leave a lot for pin weight.

[jsb5717]

Your RAM should have a placard inside the driver door similar to mine. You can see that mine shows "Combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 5462 lbs". That's my payload rating. It's the max my truck is rated to carry in additional weight.

Find this on your truck and let us know what the number is. Or better, take a pic of the placard and post it.

Don't do any math with any of the other numbers to try to extrapolate a payload number...you'll be off, maybe by a lot. ie: Your axle rating numbers won't give you an accurate payload. Your payload won't be anywhere near 6k lbs...not on a 2500. The OEM has done all of the math and stated the result in one number. For me it's 5462. What's yours?

[bootstrap]

@Carl n Susan
Per the chart-
Max trailer is 20k
GVCWR-Gross Combined Weight Rating-Total weight of truck/trailer combo 27,890 lbs
So if you take 15% of the MFG 20k Max trailer weight, that's 3k pin weight

Originally Posted by bootstrap View Post
....trailer at 20k GCWR @ 27980....
First, I don't understand what these numbers represent.

[bootstrap]

Originally Posted by jsb5717

Your RAM should have a placard inside the driver door similar to mine. You can see that mine shows "Combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 5462 lbs". That's my payload rating. It's the max my truck is rated to carry in additional weight.

Find this on your truck and let us know what the number is. Or better, take a pic of the placard and post it.

Don't do any math with any of the other numbers to try to extrapolate a payload number...you'll be off, maybe by a lot. ie: Your axle rating numbers won't give you an accurate payload. Your payload won't be anywhere near 6k lbs...not on a 2500. The OEM has done all of the math and stated the result in one number. For me it's 5462. What's yours?

I guess I need to check the owners manual more often. It states for a 2500 using a 5th wheel:
Max trailer weight 25,000lbs
Max tongue weight: 3750 lbs

[jsb5717]

Originally Posted by bootstrap

I guess I need to check the owners manual more often. It states for a 2500 using a 5th wheel:
Max trailer weight 25,000lbs
Max tongue weight: 3750 lbs

Looks like you're getting closer. However, those publications are generalities based on a variability of factors and depends on exactly which version of that truck you have. And they usually represent best possible case scenario.

The sticker inside the driver door is the final word on the payload rating for your specific truck. You can't look at the charts and assume that those numbers apply to your truck.

With a loaded pin weight at 2200 lbs you should be in the ballpark with your truck. I doubt you'll be badly overweight...you might not be overweight at all. Going to the scales will verify it. Just look at the sticker in your truck to know your exact number.

[twindman]

Bootstrap -- I think the 3750 pin weight you listed could ONLY be for a dually and not include any other weight like people, fuel, etc.

[bootstrap]

Originally Posted by jsb5717

Looks like you're getting closer. However, those publications are generalities based on a variability of factors and depends on exactly which version of that truck you have.

The sticker inside the driver door is the final word on the payload rating for your specific truck. You can't look at the charts and assume that those numbers apply to your truck.

With a loaded pin weight at 2200 lbs you should be in the ballpark with your truck. I doubt you'll be badly overweight...you might not be overweight at all. Going to the scales will verify it. Just look at the sticker in your truck to know your exact number.

For some reason I do not have that sticker on the driver's door jam, I've looked all over. I agree the info in owner's manual is not the gospel, but it gets me closer to what I want to know. I disagree with the payload with being the law for pin weight. Ram rates the 2500 max trailer at 20,000lbs, so using the GN 15% average weight transfer, thats 3k on the truck. Using the 20-22% weight transfer I've read that 5vers transfer, even more pin if pulling the Max trailer rating that Ram states. If that's the case, just about every hotshot truck out there hauling 3 car trailers and 40' GN with a 3/4 ton is over. I'm pretty positive Texas DOT would hammer these guys now days. As are the oilfield 3/4 tons that Halliburton, Stream etc use. The trucks are loaded up with equipment in the bed over 2500lbs and their exposure to lawsuits are much greater than most. I definitely blow the payload rating of 2500 hauling hay and equipment with my 36' triple axle gooseneck flatbed and cattle in my 32' GN with my 2500.
I'm not worried about my truck with my current camper. If this work camping thing is good for us, then I want to upgrade RV's. The RV community seems pretty hardcore about the weights, hence my question here. Ideally, I want to go with MDT, prefer an HDT if I go with a large 5th wheel. Anyways I wanted to explore what others do/have to say.
Ram shows the GAWR front at 5750lbs and rear 6000lbs for the 2500, I need to check my tire ratings. I'm going to fill up my 60 gallon in bed tank, leave my tools in and see what my axle and "empty" weight is.

[bootstrap]

Originally Posted by twindman

Bootstrap -- I think the 3750 pin weight you listed could ONLY be for a dually and not include any other weight like people, fuel, etc.

That pin is from the owners manual for a 2500 pulling a 5th wheel. Info is the pic I posted a couple replies up

[jsb5717]

Originally Posted by bootstrap

For some reason I do not have that sticker on the driver's door jam, I've looked all over. I agree the info in owner's manual is not the gospel, but it gets me closer to what I want to know. I disagree with the payload with being the law for pin weight. Ram rates the 2500 max trailer at 20,000lbs, so using the GN 15% average weight transfer, thats 3k on the truck. Using the 20-22% weight transfer I've read that 5vers transfer, even more pin if pulling the Max trailer rating that Ram states. If that's the case, just about every hotshot truck out there hauling 3 car trailers and 40' GN with a 3/4 ton is over. I'm pretty positive Texas DOT would hammer these guys now days. As are the oilfield 3/4 tons that Halliburton, Stream etc use. The trucks are loaded up with equipment in the bed over 2500lbs and their exposure to lawsuits are much greater than most. I definitely blow the payload rating of 2500 hauling hay and equipment with my 36' triple axle gooseneck flatbed and cattle in my 32' GN with my 2500.
I'm not worried about my truck with my current camper. If this work camping thing is good for us, then I want to upgrade RV's. The RV community seems pretty hardcore about the weights, hence my question here. Ideally, I want to go with MDT, prefer an HDT if I go with a large 5th wheel. Anyways I wanted to explore what others do/have to say.
Ram shows the GAWR front at 5750lbs and rear 6000lbs for the 2500, I need to check my tire ratings. I'm going to fill up my 60 gallon in bed tank, leave my tools in and see what my axle and "empty" weight is.

I agree that you are probably OK with your current set up. But it's also important to understand why it's OK. And perhaps once you've done all of the correct math you might find that you're overloaded.

Payload is the number that represents the maximum amount of weight that can legally be put ON your truck. It's more about suspension factored with frame strength, etc. Pin weight is just a piece of that total weight. Add your pin weight, plus hitch, plus gear, plus people. The total of everything that is going ON the truck comes directly off of your legal payload. If that total weight exceeds your payload then you are over loaded.

Tow rating is an entirely different rating and has no correlation to payload. It's simply the maximum weight your truck is rated to tow BEHIND it. This one has very little to do with suspension and is more about frame strength and drive train capability.

Two entirely different, unrelated ratings that both need to be true to be safe.

When looking at which truck to use to pull a trailer, it almost always comes down to payload. Most trucks will have the tow capacity to pull the horizontal weight. Too many trucks don't have the payload to carry the vertical weight.

Too many don't understand this and the highways are full of that evidence.

Just for fun, can you post pics of all the stickers you have inside your door?

[LeftOverParts]

You might be overweight. Assuming the 2500 lb payload figure is accurate, if you subtract 300 lbs for 2 people, 150 lbs for the hitch, and 100 lbs for cargo, you will have 1950 lbs available for pin weight. Using the advertised pin of 2220 lbs mentioned would put you over. It would be worth confirming your trailer specs and getting the weights as mentioned. (And yes, other folks may be running overweight.)

If you’re open to another truck, the price difference between a new 2500 and 3500 optioned the same will be relatively small and give you a lot more payload. Worth comparing IMO.

[twindman]

No way is the 2200 pin weight accurate. I have not heard ANYONE with a pin weight that low (with a Montana). I previously had a 34 ft Montana and it's pin was 2400 over the scales, as does my current 37.5 ft rig. By the way, I am about 200-300 over weight on the truck, but back axle is perfect. Oh, and Chevy 3500 has a higher payload than a 2500 and the only difference is the 3500 has one more leave spring from what I gathered in the past. And I have almost no sag with my truck.

[Cat320]

Originally Posted by jsb5717

...The sticker inside the driver door is the final word on the payload rating for your specific truck. You can't look at the charts and assume that those numbers apply to your truck...

Agree, the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the driver's door is required by law to be there. The OP said he couldn't find it......only the dealer could have removed it.

[brycesteiner]

Mine doesn't have that sticker either. It only has the GVWR tag.