THE FIX to Slides pausing when moving in/out

[MrRobinGrimes]

The Slides on our RV pause when they move in and out. We lived with the issue because I could not find the cause. Pump had plenty of fluid and ran ok. I thought it was just old and had some kind of over pressure switch built into it. I finally found the real cause on this forum so I wanted to share pictures of the installed fix.

The issue was a weak automatic breaker. It would trip then reset after a few seconds and slides would move again for 5 seconds then stop.
The breaker for the hydraulic pump is located on the back wall above the battery and below the pump.


It's a 50 amp breaker but I read that the circuit for the pump is good up to 100 amps and that the pump can pull up to 80amps. Hence the breaker popping off.

The solution is to replace the single 50amp with 2x 40 amp breakers.


These can be bought for about $5 each at any auto parts store. The local autozone didn't keep them in stock, but ordered them and they arrived the next day. Oh, I also had to buy 4 nuts. I used the nylon locking kind to keep things from rattling lose.

I mouned the two new breakers next to the old one.

(I didn't have the square head bit to remove the old one.)

Next I used two copper pipe straps to bridge the breaker poles. One on each side. Wrapped in electrical tape.



Last I mounted the wire going to the pump to the top left. (Aux side of breaker). And mounted the battery to the copper pole side of breaker. (Bat side of breaker).

After that, all three slides move in and out seamlessly.

I'm now a hero to the wife, since she was the one stuck pressing/waiting/pressing/waiting before.

Happy RVing.

[bncinwv]

This has been extensively discussed many times on the forum, but the pics bring a new clarity to the potential fixes (there are others that have been discussed). Good job on documenting your work, it will be useful to many in the future.
Bingo

[Alwims]

Can't add anything, but take a good Phillips head screw driver and put a little pressure on those screws and they'll come right out.

[BB_TX]

Very nice way of doing the jumper. I used two very short bus bars which worked well, but might have used your method if I had thought about it.

[1retired06]

Good reminder for us old timers who have dealt with this issue before.

[Phil P]

Now here is something to think about.

You have just provided 80 amps of power to a wire intended to carry 50 amps (REF: AWG chart). Now picture that wire if it shots to the frame near the pump motor. Now look at the filament it a light bulb and dream a little.

The specifications on the pump motor are 100 amps “locked rotor” (REF: Parker specification sheet) this is a failed motor not an operational motor. The operating amp for the pressures used in the slide system is 40 to 45 amps (I can’t find my Parker spec sheet but going by memory it is either 40 or 45).

After replacing the 30 amp inline fuse that was installed in my pump wire by the factory with a 50 amp breaker three years ago I haven’t experienced an electrical problem with the slides since. I run the pump to hydraulic presser relief every time I run it and have yet to have the breaker trip.

I would suggest putting a good 50 amp breaker in rather than take a chance of setting the trailer on fire.

Phil P

[mhs4771]

I can't believe you own an RV and don't have a square bit to fit almost every screw in the Montana and every other RV out there. I have at least three of those multi-bit screwdrivers and they all came with several size square bits in addition to Phillips and Flat Blade bits.

[DQDick]

When I started having that problem and mine was under warranty, Keystone replaced my 50amp breaker with an 80amp one and said my wiring was made for it. Since then I have advised folks with the issue to call Keystone because some of the older rigs aren't wired as heavy, but it's worth checking before you do anything.

[jcurtis934]

My wiring is heavier than what was in the pics. And it came from the factory with two of these cheap breakers wired in series before going to the motor for the pump. Have no idea what amperage they are. But I haven't had any issues yet with them. I did see some really nice breakers in West Marine that are used in boats since boat manufacturers are under more safety regulations than trailers. Guess I don't have to tell you that I was drooling big time when I saw them. Yes...I think I can see them in my monty... John

[Art-n-Marge]

Phil P... The recommendation is actually well documented from Lippert as the one to do and I used the dual 40amp autoresetting solution ahd it's worked for me ever since. Your electronics explanation is very applicable and I've always wondered why it worked based on your explanation, but apparently is not an issue from Lippert (supplier of mine and many other slide systems). Since the Lippert recommendation works so well, we apparently don't need to worry about the concern you bring up.

When the slideouts started failing after you've done this and the fluid is good, there is a good 12V power source, the RV is level and jacks are down, then the problem should be assumed to be more severe and hopefully one doesn't find this out via a fire. Thanks for the electrical reminder for our consideration.

LOL on the square bits. They are often on the stash of bits that come with most mechanic style tool kits. I think I have three or four sets of the three sizes amongst all the tool kits I have in my possession. Never noticed them before until I bought my first trailer and have been using them ever since (trailer exterior fasteners, curtain and valence supports, they are used in lots of places).

[Phil P]

Jcurtis934 has just stated he has increased the wire sizes. If he used the published wire sizes for an 80 Amp draw he doesn’t have a problem.

This was the point I was making.

quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

Phil P... The recommendation is actually well documented from Lippert

Art

The problem with using anything in Lippert’s recommendation is they didn’t install the system and don’t have any idea what wire sizes has been used.

The wire sizes in our trailer for the pump system except for the pump and relay panel that is wired by Lippert has wiring only good for 50 amps. The installation of a circuit breaker or fuse larger than 50 amps with this sizes wire is a fire hazard.

The charts and information I use are a national standard. Ignoring them has proven in the past to be deadly.

The hydraulic pump that operates theses slides in our trailer is set at a pressure that works well. Everything I have found on Lippert’s site indicates the system is set to operate at a pressure that Parker says will result in the pump drawing between 40 and 45 amps.

I find this must be accurate because my slides when they reach their travel stop moving just like everyone else’s should and I can hold the pump switch on for several seconds without having the circuit breaker trip.

If you can’t hold the switch for several seconds after the slides stop without tripping a 50 amp breaker then there is something wrong and it isn’t too small a breaker.

Phil P

PS:

Parker states a duty cycle in minutes and “cool down” period between pump usages. I haven’t honored that and everything is still working I guess I am just lucky.

[BB_TX]

Phil - You state that you replaced your 30 amp OEM with a 50 amp, 20 amps higher than original.
However, many of us had 50 amp breakers as OEM and replaced them with 80 amp or two 40 amp in parallel, 30 amps higher than original.
Assuming you did not also replace the wiring I don't see a lot of difference in what you did vs what many of us have done.
I replaced my original 50 amp breaker with a new 50 amp breaker and about a year later it started failing again. No problems at all since I installed the twin 40s.

[JandC]

My 2008 had been doing the same thing. I also had checked all the obvious things learned on the forum. If I hadn't traded I would have been making this modification immediately. Great explanation of how you did it!

[Phil P]

quote:Originally posted by BB_TX

Phil - You state that you replaced your 30 amp OEM with a 50 amp, 20 amps higher than original.
However, many of us had 50 amp breakers as OEM and replaced them with 80 amp or two 40 amp in parallel, 30 amps higher than original.
Assuming you did not also replace the wiring I don't see a lot of difference in what you did vs what many of us have done.
I replaced my original 50 amp breaker with a new 50 amp breaker and about a year later it started failing again. No problems at all since I installed the twin 40s.

Hi

The difference is my wiring was sized for 50 amps and Keystone had trimmed strands off the ends of the wire so they would go in the butt splice they used to connect an obviously to small a wire that came out of the inline fuse holder.

The wiring for the slide system as near as I can tell by the post here on the forum is the same sizes as the wiring in the other 2009 3665RE units. It was the 30 amp inline fuse that was incorrect and the selling dealers so called electrician didn’t even know what a VOM was let alone how to use one.

I was at the MOC rally in Marion NC a couple of years ago and was able to look at another 2009 3665RE unit that was there.

The difference between the 2 units was so great I can’t believe our unit came off the same production line. The sewer out let was even glued to the pipe correctly.

I can run my pump with the slides standing still without tripping the 50 amp breaker. You should be able to do this as well with a good 50 amp breaker installed. If you can’t then you have something else wrong. The only exception to this would be extreme cold weather.

Except in extreme cold weather if you have some type of failure or the slides become so hard to move that the hydraulic system can’t move them you should not trip your 50 amp breaker the slides should just stop moving and the pump will keep running with the bypass valve open.

I have never had a slide stop until it was all the way closed or all the way open and then I run the pump a few more seconds and I can hear the hydraulic fluid bypassing in the pump it is a very different sound. This is the way the system is designed.

Phil P

[RRman]

I recently had my service center check my slideout operation on my old Montana. They advised some parts were very rusty and inquired if a I camped a lot along the Gulf (Yes!), They cleaned and lubed and now the slides run much smoother. Possibly a consideration.

[BB_TX]

I checked the wire size to my pump. It is 4 AWG 75C wire which is good for 85 amps. Less than 2' long, not bundled or enclosed with any other wire.

[dieselguy]

I'm a bit confused why an accredited / certified / hydraulic guru would recommend holding your slide switch in for several seconds after the first change in tone of the pump usually indicating the slides are fully deployed / retracted?? That's kinda like butting your car up against the inside wall of your garage and spinning the tires a bit just to be sure it's all the way in. Once the slides are all the way in / out, continuing to lay on the slide switch waiting on the pump relief poppet to open (usually a few hundred pounds above what it normally takes to operate the slides) doesn't seem like something this "field tech" would want to openly recommend to others.

[NCFischers]

I agree.

[Phil P]

quote:Originally posted by dieselguy

I'm a bit confused why an accredited / certified / hydraulic guru would recommend holding your slide switch in for several seconds after the first change in tone of the pump usually indicating the slides are fully deployed / retracted?? That's kinda like butting your car up against the inside wall of your garage and spinning the tires a bit just to be sure it's all the way in. Once the slides are all the way in / out, continuing to lay on the slide switch waiting on the pump relief poppet to open (usually a few hundred pounds above what it normally takes to operate the slides) doesn't seem like something this "field tech" would want to openly recommend to others.

Hi

You need to go back and research your training material. If the bypass opens on more than 50 psi and less than 25 psi above the working pressure it needs some attention.

Now you tell me how else to tell the slides have reached their limit and have sealed against the side of the trailer?

If the pump and bypass valve are set up properly the change in the sound of the pump is the bypass valve opening.

The normal reaction time is between 2 and 4 tents of a second so if you are hearing the change of the sound of the pump your bypass valve is opening regardless of how fast you think you are releasing the switch.

Also if you are moving all the slides at the same time they move normally in relation to their weight but sometimes one of them will not be tight against the trailer and moves again once the last slide reaches it extended or retract position.

If you’re not hearing you pleasure relief valve open then you have no way of knowing all sides are at their fully extended or retracted positions.

The amperage spike when they reach their limit is less than 1 amp.

If you are tripping your circuit breaker before or when your bypass valve open (sound of pump changes) you have a problem with the system somewhere maybe the bypass valve is set several 100 lbs higher than the working pressure then that needs attention but more than likely it is a week circuit breaker.

Just arbitrarily changing the breaker to larger sizes without determining the wire sizes of wires is not recommended by any inelegant technician.

Phil P

[Phil P]

quote:Originally posted by BB_TX

I checked the wire size to my pump. It is 4 AWG 75C wire which is good for 85 amps. Less than 2' long, not bundled or enclosed with any other wire.

Hi

That’s the point I am making. You have now determined you wiring is suitable for an 80 amp breaker.

The only caution I advise is make sure you are looking at the wires from the battery to the relay board. The relay board is wired by Lippert and does have the #4 wire.

Mine is not mine are #8 longer than 2 feet were bundled with other wiring (not any longer) and doesn’t need anything larger than 50 amps breaker.

Phil P