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Old 04-09-2012, 04:59 PM   #21
Desert RVer
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

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quote:Originally posted by Desert RVer

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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Don't think it is a case of Keystone not caring but rather a case of are they still made and available. Keystone does not make graphics they buy graphics from a vendor. If the vendor no longer makes that year graphics or has them in stock where will they come from. My guess is they can be special ordered and special made but at a price.

We Had mentioned that these graphics were meant to last 5 to 7 years with proper maint and that was from a professional graphics shop. Now we never waxed the graphics as per Burlington graphics and did the maint as per Burlington graphics.. The graphics did well up to last year then started to go bad fast. Not all of them but most of them. It has been out in the Arizona and Florida winter sun for its entire life.

I feel they lived up to the design characteristics. We are not happy that they now look like crap after 6 years an we went to the full body paint on the 12 big sky.....That had better solve the issue.
How do you know what Montana's design characteristics were? Are we not supposed to take our Montana 5th wheels out in the sun? I don't think we need someone making excuses for Montana. It is quite clear just based on the responses in this post that there is a problem that Montana should take care of.
Did not say anything about Montana's design characteristics' What i said was to clarify, is that we took some graphics that Montana had sent us and let a local professional graphics shop look at them and they evaluated those graphics and said they were of a quality that should last 5 to 7 years with proper care. The problem would be that the quality of the graphics are such that they should last from 5 to 7 years with proper maint.

We said nothing about how Montana should handle the problem. IMO If Montana said they were defective then they should cover the cost of replacement. That the graphics may not be in production any more is Montana's problem.

This professional graphics shop has graphics on boats on Lake Erie that are over 10 years old and could for a price install graphics on this Montana that would last a very long time. I am sure Montana could do the same IF we were willing to pay the price???
How soon you forget. We did pay the price. Montana knew they had a decal problem before the warranty ran out. But hid the problem and only those who complained were taken care of during the warranty period. Those that didn't get screwed. Nice ethical company.
 
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:34 AM   #22
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If you were at any of the fall rallies Keystone/Montana readily admitted that there were decal issues as did Burlinton graphics. We were informed via the rally and this forum how to report and who to report the problem to. One had to report / Complain in order for the problem to be known.Many who reported the issue out of warranty members of this forum or not did receive new graphics.

What I am hearing now but not confirmed is that Montana will no longer replace bad graphics under any circumstances. Is that true?????

Both Burlinton amd Montana held seminars at all rallies we have been to since 2006 and recognized that folks were having problems but were hard pressed to find a specific cause as many, many never had a problem.Many remidies were tried, Different glue, different material but nothing seemed to work as some still had problems.

IMO it is due to the quality of the material and the added cost higher quality materials would add to the unit and the consumers willingness to pay for the added cost.If Montana installed higher quality graphics at a higher cost and the other brands did not sales would suffer.What happens after 5 or 7 years is of little concern to the average purchasing consumer.They will go elesewhere for 50.00
That is just the way consumers are.No excuse for Keystone...just my opinion.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:28 AM   #23
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When your 5 year old $50,000 plus(when new) Montana with peeling decals is parked next to a 10 year old $30,000 plus(when new)5th wheel whose decals are still perfect then you wonder whether good decals really cost more. Or whether the other company may know something that Montana doesn't know. It really doesn't matter. Montana produced a defective product and is refusing to do anything about it. Whether they can still get the decals from Burlington Graphics or not is a moot point. Montana knows what they are supposed to look like and there are many other graphics companies besides Burlington Graphics. I know that at least one of the original decals was avaialble in the last three months from Montana. I don't think this has anything to do with availability. Montana has just decided to refuse an more free graphics replacements on their products over a certain age. Independant of their acknowledgement that they produced a product with decals that were problematic. That is the ethical issue I find unacceptable.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:33 AM   #24
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"Montana has just decided to refuse an more free graphics replacements on their products over a certain age. Independant of their acknowledgement that they produced a product with decals that were problematic. That is the ethical issue I find unacceptable. '

Would like to have confirmation that it is true. We have seen recent post where Montana asked for pictures. We know that my 06 graphics can be reproduced by another graphics company using similar quality materials so why not Keystone..... We have a call in to Keystone service center on a different subject and will ask the question.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:29 AM   #25
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

"Montana has just decided to refuse an more free graphics replacements on their products over a certain age. Independant of their acknowledgement that they produced a product with decals that were problematic. That is the ethical issue I find unacceptable. '

Would like to have confirmation that it is true. We have seen recent post where Montana asked for pictures. We know that my 06 graphics can be reproduced by another graphics company using similar quality materials so why not Keystone..... We have a call in to Keystone service center on a different subject and will ask the question.
You have confirmation that they won't provide any more "FREE" decals by virtue of this post. What isn't known yet is if they are available for purchase. I didn't ask. I would suspect they are. I see no reason why they would not be. I'd bet they are. It would be a huge profit generator for Montana.
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:41 AM   #26
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Found this on line


How can you keep the rv decals from peeling off?

ANSWER: Hi Lana thanks for submitting your question on our Ask An RV Question Page.

Peeling decals on RV's is an all too common problem. Once the decals become brittle and start peeling, there is no reliable way that I am aware of to safely reattach them to your RV. I would advise against using any kind of adhesives or glues to reattach them as those products could damage the gel coat, fiberglass or metal of your RV.

If your RV is under warranty you should be able to get the decals replaced. If the RV is out of warranty then you have the choice of removing all of the peeling decals and replacing them. Please read the answer I gave to Where Can I Get Replacement Decals For My 5th Wheel Trailer?

Vinyl decals on RVs can be damaged by chemicals such as petroleum distillates that are contained in some waxes, by prolonged exposure to the sun's ultra violet rays, excessive scrubbing when cleaning the exterior of the RV, etc.

There are two proven ways of protecting the vinyl decals on an RV. The first is by treating them with a protectant. The one I highly recommend is 303 Aerospace Protectant. Below you can read what the manufacturer says about their product.

"RV, Motorhome and Vehicle Decals
Have you ever had your decals or 'stripes' on your RV or motorhome fade or crack from oxidation? Here is why.

The decal/stripes on RVs are vinyl. As a general rule, one should refrain from using anything containing petroleum distillates or abrasives on vinyl, including Vinyl decals. Unfortunately, most waxes contain petroleum distillates and often abrasives.

303 Aerospace Protectant is the only proven effective treatment that is safe for vinyl.

Therefore if you use wax on your motorhome it would be best to treat the vinyl decals first with 303 Aerospace Protectant. Spray on/wipe off. Then 303 would repel any wax over sprayed or wiped onto the decal. It's quite durable and effective repellency is an added benefit 303 Protectant provides in this application."




Read more: http://www.everything-about-rving.co...#ixzz1rfTyIMtj

I also read on the Outback forum that they have been having decal problems since 2006. I believe Outback is a Keystone product. However, to give the devil its' due, based on the above response it seems to be a recognized problem. I am also guilty of waxing over my decals so shame on me.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:07 AM   #27
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Ironically, I was parked at the Love's at Exit 4 on I-95 in VA yesterday. Two other Montanas rolled in and parked near me. We were both a testament to the popularity of the product and the poor quality of the decals! All 3 were peeling (my rig is only 3 seasons old). One of them looked absolutely terrible. Having had to replace the cap decals on my old Mountaineer, I would have gladly paid extra for a set on my Montana that would actually last more than 3 years. Keystone should be embarrassed.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:46 AM   #28
richfaa
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Spoke to Robyn at Keystone customer service center about the "graphics issue" May not be what some want to hear but here it is..

Graphics from Montana year 2006 and earlier are in short supply or non existent and no longer made. Graphics have a shelf life and after a few years on the shelf the glue goes bad and will no longer bond properly.(I did not know that)

Call customer service with your VIN number. The VIN number will indicate if any of that year graphics are available.


If they are available they will ask for pictures. Now these folks are hard to fool IF they determine that your graphics qualify for replacement and they have them in stock. they will address your issue.

They did say that if the graphics are not available, not in stock, no longer made then there is no way they can get them or we can purchase them.

I know, I know... My graphics are bad.They are of course defective. It is Keystones responsibility to replace them no matter what the cost.
I agree but don't think that is gonna happen.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:27 PM   #29
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Rich, did you happen to ask what Keystone's expectation is for minimum life on the graphics? It would be interesting to hear the answer to that. Is it 5 years? 10? I know what you posted about the graphics guy saying it appeared to be a 5 to 7 year design, but what did Burlington tell Keystone when they bid for the contract? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.................
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:22 PM   #30
richfaa
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Yes Robyn did agree with the 5 to 7 year expectation for the graphics but also said that there are many variables that might affect that. Exposure to extreme elements, improper maintenance. Using citrus based washing material. About 95 % of my graphics after 6 years are in fair shape. Only one area is peeling and that is near the water intake door where the graphic was installed over the caulking. Water got under it and it peeled back. We have shrinking, some have shrunk @ 1/16 of a inch and others have not shrunk at all.Our front graphics are beat to death with bug strikes and have some shrinking.We have some tree branch hits high up. I would estimate that about 70% of the graphics show at least 1/16 shrinkage.

We have never waxed the graphics in fact we have never waxed this 3400 and anyone who knows me will know that is the truth.
It is strange that the graphics except for the dings and scratches looked really good till last year then started to show shrinkage last winter season and have shown more since then The 3400 was 6 years this month.

Just my opinion but I have enough testimony from outside graphic experts that these are 5 to 7 years graphics.Not happy about that but that is what we got.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:05 PM   #31
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I got about 10 years out of my 1997 Jayco. It sat out exposed to the weather for the entire time. I use my camper about 5 to 7 weeks a year. So I built a garage for it to sit in when we're not using it. My 2003 dually has vinyl graphics I had installed on it 9 years ago. As it is garage kept they still look new as does the truck. For those that use their rigs most or all of the time it looks as if the choice is replacing them as they fail, go with paint, go naked, or keep a lot of the aerospace protectant on their graphics. Now I do not know what the cost of a higher quality graphic that would last say 12 years (at least the length of the average loan) would be, but unless we are talking huge money I think most would prefer the improvement. Of course it would have to be marketed as a selling point to justify the slightly higher cost. Thanks for the information.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:00 PM   #32
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Just a note.. We purchased a new Montana. It is a 3402 Big Sky .... with full body paint..No graphics...We had our lessons learned.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Just a note.. We purchased a new Montana. It is a 3402 Big Sky .... with full body paint..No graphics...We had our lessons learned.
The "BIG SKY" with full body paint that I looked at on Monday all four of them still had some Decals/Graphics on them
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:03 PM   #34
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It is important to note that Montana procured the decals with a set of spec's for the 2006 models. They still have those specifications. I will not accept that they are no longer available. Montana has unilaterally decided to NOT buy more from Burlington Graphics or any other vendor. That is uacceptable to all Montana owners and we need to make our needs and opinions known. Not supporting existing customers with repair parts would cause most to buy another brand, full body paint or not.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:52 AM   #35
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quote:Originally posted by Desert RVer

It is important to note that Montana procured the decals with a set of spec's for the 2006 models. They still have those specifications. I will not accept that they are no longer available. Montana has unilaterally decided to NOT buy more from Burlington Graphics or any other vendor. That is uacceptable to all Montana owners and we need to make our needs and opinions known. Not supporting existing customers with repair parts would cause most to buy another brand, full body paint or not.
You may call Burlington Graphics and go as far up the line as you wish to confirm if the Graphics are still made or not by them.
My guess is that they could make them on special order at a price.

We did state that a Local graphics maker in Ohio could duplicate the graphics on our 06 3400 with a like or better quality graphic..at a price.

Yes we should voice our displeasure and if purchasing another brand should do some in depth research on the quailty of Graphics installed.
We chose NOT to get the 3402 with graphics improved or not.We went with full body paint to avoid graphics.

We are just posting what we got from Montana and BTW Burlingtnon Graphics... Not that we agreed.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:53 AM   #36
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Just a note.. We purchased a new Montana. It is a 3402 Big Sky .... with full body paint..No graphics...We had our lessons learned.
The "BIG SKY" with full body paint that I looked at on Monday all four of them still had some Decals/Graphics on them
Where were the Graphics..The marketing says full body paint..and that had better be the case.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:17 AM   #37
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Thanks for your research Rich. I will contact Robyn and send photos of my street side and cap peeling. Do you have a specific email or phone number for her? Thanks again.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:20 AM   #38
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Thanks for your research Rich. I will contact Robyn and send photos of my street side and cap peeling. Do you have a specific email or phone number for her? Thanks again.
No just call customer service you may or may not get Roybin
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:24 AM   #39
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

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quote:Originally posted by The Oldguard

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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Just a note.. We purchased a new Montana. It is a 3402 Big Sky .... with full body paint..No graphics...We had our lessons learned.
The "BIG SKY" with full body paint that I looked at on Monday all four of them still had some Decals/Graphics on them
Where were the Graphics..The marketing says full body paint..and that had better be the case.
They were on the side where it say's "Montana" just run you're hand over the unit and you can feel them.
I'm sure that they are on the front cap also, but need a ladder to check for sure.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:44 AM   #40
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quote:Originally posted by The Oldguard

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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

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quote:Originally posted by The Oldguard

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Just a note.. We purchased a new Montana. It is a 3402 Big Sky .... with full body paint..No graphics...We had our lessons learned.
The "BIG SKY" with full body paint that I looked at on Monday all four of them still had some Decals/Graphics on them
Where were the Graphics..The marketing says full body paint..and that had better be the case.
They were on the side where it say's "Montana" just run you're hand over the unit and you can feel them.
I'm sure that they are on the front cap also, but need a ladder to check for sure.
Are you sure you ere looking at a Big Sky..The Big Sky does not have MONTANA on the side or front cap...It says BIG SKY.
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