It's done, inverter, lithium & ATS

[432bartman]

Well it's been a long 5 days of working on this project. As with most projects, this snow balled with the installation of a new residential refrigerator, after our Norcold 2118 bit the dust. With the new residential fridge running on 120V, I needed to get an inverter so I could run the fridge on the road, or if I was going to go off the grid.
I elected to go with a new, single 300ah lithium battery made by Redodo, and one of their new 3000 watt inverters, which also has a built in charger. I also bought a 50 amp rated ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) made by Furrion. The system is protected by a 400 watt fuse in a fuse block, followed by a heavy duty marine grade cutoff battery switch. From there, it feeds to a 400 amp busbar distribution block. I used 1 gauge cable throughout.
The biggest hurdle was dealing with the 50 amp, 4 conducter, 6 gauge wiring. I learned a valuable lesson with trying to cut and splice that wiring....it does not like it. Hooking up to my house for the shore power side, and it would immediately trip my circuit breaker. I had tried to mount my Furrion ATS up in the front storage compartment, near all the other equipment. I cut the main 50 amp cabling about 2' back from the main cirucuit breakers. On the other end of the 50 amp cable I had cut coming from the shore shore power side, I tied into that and ran more of that cabling into the front storage compartment. I think with the length and the splicing together with a 6 gauge nut kit that was shrink wrapped gave me a ground fault. I had the inverter working but going to shore power left me with nothing, and none of my 12V was working. All my 120V outlets in the trailer worked, along with the fridge and microwave. From watching numerous YouTube videos and internet searches, it appeared our factory converter needed to be disconnected, which i did.
So at this point, and on the 4th day, I was feeling very frustrated. A friend of mine, who had done a similar installation on his Reflection 5th wheel, advised to get rid of all the long 50 amp cabling, not splice anything, and to rehook up the wires to the factory converter. That was the trick.
I removed the factory 2' section of 50 amp power cord leading directly into the fuse panel. I replaced it with about a 6' section. I mounted my Furrion ATS against the south wall of our big pass through storage area. From there the new 6' piece of 50 amp wiring met up perfectly with the other half coming from the shore power side. I wired up the ATS without the inverter hooked to it and it worked.........no circuit breakers tripped. On the ATS there are three terminals to wire to: Shore Power In, Generator In, and Line Out. From my friend, I was told to wire my shore power leads to the Generator In, and my inverter to the Shore Power In terminals. I think the consensus with wiring it opposite of the directions is that the ATS would choose the shore power coming in over the inverter as the primary power source. Evidently it works how I wired it up. With the factory converter hooked back up, all my 12V items were now working again, i.e. lights, leveler, ect..
I next wired up my inverter. From the output side of my inverter, it went to the Shore Power In side of the ATS. Since my inverter only has a ground, (1) Live/Hot, and a Neutral, I made a jumper to both Hot1 and Hot2 of the ATS. This I take it, is what gives me 120V from all my plugs, I next connected the input side of my inverter to one of the Hot terminals of the Generator In side, which I had wired with my shore power, along with a neutral, and a ground. This provided my inverter power to charge my battery when it detected that I was connected to shore power. I also installed the wired remote for the inverter, which is mounted in the cabinet, just above the factory fusebox.
Other than the inverter and battery from Redodo, I ordered everything on Amazon. The battery and inverter arrived in 2 days from ordering it. These are most of the items I ordered to get this project done:

Oh one important thing I learned...........take pictures of everything prior to dismantling it, like the converter or the fuse panel.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F84UNW8...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R6XF5G8...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CSXTN1Z5...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CWND81Y6...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TVYPTRT...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FSWKRH5...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BWYBGW3D...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C9TF6WTD...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZSL6SBZ...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TGNZPC4...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K2NZAU...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VIVWAW...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7WQ98NX...fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BD6N87M2...fed_asin_title

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-R...e-Roll/3338760

https://www.redodopower.com/products...RoCYaoQAvD_BwE

https://www.redodopower.com/products...ithium-battery

[Carl n Susan]

That sounds like a real adventure! I think I understand all that you did but I do have two questions.

I thought an ATS preferred Shore Power over Generator. I am confused why the Furion ATS prefers Generator input? I assume the Inverter is always powered on? Does it have the internal smarts to sense the loss of Shore Power and, only then, energize its supply to the ATS?

I believe the Inverter is also a Converter and supplies 12V to the batteries when Shore Power is connected. If so, why leave the original Converter operable? It would seem that when off grid and utilizing the Inverter for AC power, it will also be powering the original Converter. Using a 12V supply to a Converter to then create 12V is an attempt at "perpetual motion".

[Foldbak]

Originally Posted by Carl n Susan

That sounds like a real adventure! I think I understand all that you did but I do have two questions.

I thought an ATS preferred Shore Power over Generator. I am confused why the Furion ATS prefers Generator input? I assume the Inverter is always powered on? Does it have the internal smarts to sense the loss of Shore Power and, only then, energize its supply to the ATS?

I believe the Inverter is also a Converter and supplies 12V to the batteries when Shore Power is connected. If so, why leave the original Converter operable? It would seem that when off grid and utilizing the Inverter for AC power, it will also be powering the original Converter. Using a 12V supply to a Converter to then create 12V is an attempt at "perpetual motion".

Some gens are setup to exercise automatically so the transfer switch prioritizes the gen. The inverter is always on and in bypass when it sees any AC input. When it sees AC input it changes modes from inverter to battery charger and charges the batteries. The original converter should be eliminated.

[432bartman]

How do I disconnect my factory converter and still keep all my 12V systems working correctly. That part I still don't underestand. Another thing I found out is my hydraulic pump does not like my new lithium battery. It was struggling to raise my levelers and was indicating low voltage. Now looking at it, my 300 ah battery is not intended for use as a starting battery, or for PUMPS, where it needs a lot of energy very quickly. I'm now searching this remedy out. Looks like Redodo makes (1) starting battery that is 20 ah, but has 800 CCA. If I hook this battery up to my busbar, would that solve my hydraulic pump issue? Currently in San Diego for the holiday.

https://www.redodopower.com/products...de7f8afb&_ss=c

[AZ Traveler]

To disconnect your converter just turn off the circuit breaker.

I don't understand your issue with the battery and hyd pump. My lithium battery has no issue powering the hyd pump and a lot of folks are using 100 ah batteries instead of your 300 ah. Do you have other high load items on at the same time?

[Carl n Susan]

There is a 120V CB in the power panel for the converter (albeit the label may be hard to decipher). That turns off the converter. The 12V system is still fed from the battery to the fuse panel in the power panel so the DC side still works (along with the 120V AC side).

I can't help with the lithium bat issues. But there are so many of us with Lithium. This sounds like an issue with this vendor's bat or, maybe, a wiring issue?

[Foldbak]

Agreed. The battery should be more then capable of operating the pump. Unfortunately not all lithium batteries are the same. After watching the video it appears to be a good battery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kTDV1PvaBY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV8nm-xAT_k

[432bartman]

Wired directly like the former batteries were. Looking more like the type of battery I have. I copy the info on just turning the converter off at the fuse panel and still having my 12V accessories all work. Thanks guys

[432bartman]

Originally Posted by AZ Traveler

To disconnect your converter just turn off the circuit breaker.

I don't understand your issue with the battery and hyd pump. My lithium battery has no issue powering the hyd pump and a lot of folks are using 100 ah batteries instead of your 300 ah. Do you have other high load items on at the same time?

Yeah nothing else running. it definitely is a battery issue. I hooked up jumper cables to my vehicle and the pump worked perfectly. Scrolling though the fine print on the battery circ's it looks like it does not have the initial power needed to run a hydraulic pump, electric lifts or as a starter. I'm reaching out to Redodo for a suggestion.

[Foldbak]

Originally Posted by 432bartman

Yeah nothing else running. it definitely is a battery issue. I hooked up jumper cables to my vehicle and the pump worked perfectly. Scrolling though the fine print on the battery circ's it looks like it does not have the initial power needed to run a hydraulic pump, electric lifts or as a starter. I'm reaching out to Redodo for a suggestion.

According to the videos it should have MORE then enough. You might have a bad battery.

[Hblick48]

I just installed an Eco-Worthy 280 Amp LiFePO4 Battery setup. No problem running the hydraulic pump. I have an onboard Onan 4000 generator which the 280 amp battery can't be used to start. I installed a LiFePO4 Motorcycle Battery and an Xantrex Echo Charger (charges Motorcycle battery from the 280 A).

[Foldbak]

Originally Posted by Hblick48

I just installed an Eco-Worthy 280 Amp LiFePO4 Battery setup. No problem running the hydraulic pump. I have an onboard Onan 4000 generator which the 280 amp battery can't be used to start. I installed a LiFePO4 Motorcycle Battery and an Xantrex Echo Charger (charges Motorcycle battery from the 280 A).

Looks great. I still maintain that it can be used to start the generator. Maybe not advised for high current diesel or gas engines.

[Hblick48]

Originally Posted by Foldbak

Looks great. I still maintain that it can be used to start the generator. Maybe not advised for high current diesel or gas engines.

Mfg said cannot use 280 Amp to start generator. Doing so would void the warranty.

[Foldbak]

Originally Posted by Hblick48

Mfg said cannot use 280 Amp to start generator. Doing so would void the warranty.

[c2itcliff]

The issue with your LifePO4 battery, may be with the amp rating of your BMS. This is why some LifePO4 batteries will work and others won't. You will most likely need at least 250amp rated BMS. Most only come with 100amp rating. I'm no expert. So, check into this issue. If you need a separate battery, I can recommend NOCO starting batteries with 7ah of capacity. Available at Walmart or Amazon.

[Mark7]

Originally Posted by Hblick48

Mfg said cannot use 280 Amp to start generator. Doing so would void the warranty.

I don't understand that either. Just because it is a 280 amp battery does not mean the generator will use it. It it needs... say 100 amps to start, that is all it will draw.

Perhaps they are talking about hooking up a 200+ amp battery charger (Boost setting). This not only increases amperage, but also bumps the voltage up a little. That could do some damage, maybe not to the starter motor but to the relatively small CCA battery in the generator and the electronics involved.

I also agree there should be no reason a 300A battery will not run a hydraulic pump. An air conditioner running through an inverter is way more draw on the battery than a little hydraulic pump. IF your lithium battery is fully charged and you run the A/C off of the inverter / battery I bet it is close to a 150 amp load on the battery.

[c2itcliff]

Let's not confuse the amp hour rating of the battery and the amperage rating of the BMS. They are two different things. Secondly, don't confuse AC with DC. The air conditioner runs on AC current whereas the hydraulic pump runs on DC current.

[Mark7]

Originally Posted by c2itcliff

Let's not confuse the amp hour rating of the battery and the amperage rating of the BMS. They are two different things. Secondly, don't confuse AC with DC. The air conditioner runs on AC current whereas the hydraulic pump runs on DC current.

I'm well aware of that, but if the A/C is running with the inverter supplying the power there is a DC component. If the A/C draws 1300+ watts at 120VAC, the primary side of the inverter will see 150+ amps (between the inverter and the 12 VDC power source).

[Foldbak]

This thing is a beast. I wouldn't hesitate to use it to start my gen or run anything on my rig. Except the AC's of course.
https://www.google.com/search?client...HW5i0BiT4,st:0

[432bartman]

Well, I had a mobile RV repair guy out to fix a blown capacitor in my rear A/C unit. I told him of my predicament with my NEW lithium battery being unable to run my hydraulic leveling system. He suggested just running a good 12V battery separate from the other system. I went down to NAPA auto parts, bought a yellow top Optima battery, a couple of premade battery cables, and the system is now working like it should. Still frustrated on my lithium battery.