15A vs 20A breaker

[sreigle]

Those of you who have pulled the breaker panel, have you noticed whether there really is a different wire size leading to the 20A breakers than there is on the 15A breaker?

When we're running electric heaters we tend to pop the 15A breaker on the kitchen circuit. I notice other circuits have 20A breakers, like the living room circuit (which I think also operates the ceiling fan).

If the wiring is the same then the only difference would be the breaker size, right? In that case I could swap out the 15A breaker for a 20A breaker without causing potential problems, right? I'd first have to confirm that our wiring is indeed the same as the living room circuit.

If the wiring on the kitchen circuit is a smaller size than for the living room circuit then I'd naturally not swap the breaker.

Anybody know about this?

[ARJ]

Just be sure about the guage of the wire. I don't know if I would trust the way the wiring was done because 15ga could have been wired into a 20ga leg somewhere downline.

To be safe, you would have to pull every termination point to verify wire guage.

[bitterbrook]

Problem is, there are wires in the circuits which you cannot see. If you have any 14ga wire in the circuit, then a 20A breaker would be dangerous. At least in "house wiring" terms.

I think I read here that Keystone does not offer electrical diagrams of their products. Wouldn't help me much, as Fleetwood sent me one for a motorhome I used to own, and I couldn't read all of it anyway...

[NCFischers]

Steve,
The outer sheath of 15 amp (14 gauge) wire is white and 20 amp (12 gauge) wire is yellow if this helps.
Jim

[firetrucker]

Steve, the NEC ampacity for 14 gauge wire is 20 A. The microwave circuit is a 20 A circuit. If that's 14 gauge, and you're sure the that the circuit you want to use the bigger circuit breaker on has 14 gauge, I'd say go ahead. BUT, how about using a different circuit, like the washer/dryer circuit?

Bob

[ARJ]

quote:Originally posted by firetrucker

Steve, the NEC ampacity for 14 gauge wire is 20 A. The microwave circuit is a 20 A circuit. If that's 14 gauge, and you're sure the that the circuit you want to use the bigger circuit breaker on has 14 gauge, I'd say go ahead. BUT, how about using a different circuit, like the washer/dryer circuit?

Bob

Hey Bob-I think you are mistaken about current ratings. See the previous post by NCFishers.

[ARJ]

quote:Originally posted by ARJ

Just be sure about the guage of the wire. I don't know if I would trust the way the wiring was done because 14ga could have been wired into a 12ga leg somewhere downline.

To be safe, you would have to pull every termination point to verify wire guage.

Had my gauge and capacity mixed up-sorry

[farmboy]

Gentelmen, The NEC has limited the c/b size on #12awg to 20amp.,on #14AWG TO 15AMP AND #10awg TO 30AMP. for many,many,many decades. The color coding has only been in effect the few years. We wired Dad & Moms new house 12 years ago in all white jacketed wire.

[iowaone]

Steve,

I had my panel open over the weekend to change a breaker. On mine I checked most of the circuits coming into the panel and the wire gauge matched the circuit breakers. 14 gauage to the 15's and 12 gauge to the 20 amp. breakers.

[bitterbrook]

HOW many decades, John...? :-)

[Jolu]

Steve,
I pulled my main panel recently to move some circuits for the solar project and Jim and others are correct. White sheaths for the 14ga and yellow for the 12ga and 12ga for 20amp breakers. The living room and the kitchen circuit were 14ga 15amp breakers. The entertainment center and part of the living room and fireplace plug had a 20amp breaker.

If you can run another 12ga 20amp circuit for your portable heater it would stop the circuit breaker tripping. While doing the solar project I ran an extra 20amp circuit out of the main panel for that purpose. I had to run the wire from the panel into the belly and up through the floor under the cabinets and under the cabinet bottoms to the end toe kick.

I don't know if your rig is wired the same or not, but it gives you an idea of how they wire the circuits.

[farmboy]

quote:Originally posted by bitterbrook

HOW many decades, John...? :-)

Oh about 5.

[sreigle]

Thanks for all the great information and suggestions. I will pull the panel and the outlets to check the wiring. I'm not at all confident they'll be spec'd for 20 amps, from what I'm hearing here. And even if it appears they are, then I'd have the concern about an unseen length of wire.

I'm not sure it's worth running a separate circuit just for this. But I'm thinking of another approach now. The problem occurs when we have two electric heaters, both on the low wattage setting, on the kitchen circuit and we turn on the coffee maker. Instead of changing out the breaker or running a new circuit, there might be another way. The coffee pot sits on the o(edited)er next to and below the microwave. The microwave is on its own 20A circuit. The microwave is plugged into a duplex outlet in the back of its cabinet. I could probably easily put in another duplex outlet at the rear side of that cabinet and just plug that into the other side of the existing duplex. Then we'd just have to make sure the coffee pot and microwave don't run at the same time. That's not a problem since coffee is made just early in the morning and the microwave is not used during that time.

Thanks again for all the good info and ideas.

[blarkman]

we had the same problem, running heater and coffee pot and toaster at same time, overloading the circuit. We decided it was easier and safer not to mess electric and just reset if we screwed up.

[H. John Kohl]

quote:Originally posted by sreigle

- snip - The problem occurs when we have two electric heaters, both on the low wattage setting, on the kitchen circuit and we turn on the coffee maker. - snip -

Thanks again for all the good info and ideas.

Steve,
I was going to mention the microwave. Our unit has a switch that toggles between the microwave and electric fire place. I was going to suggest the same concept tapping off the microwave outlet to another one for coffee pot. I have thought about doing exactly what you said, putting an outlet on the outside of the microwave for the coffee pot but we have not blown the circuit breaker yet when Ann makes coffee.
Best of luck and let us know what you do.

[blarkman]

Just a suggestion you might want to add up the amps that these units are pulling and see if they wil exceed the 20amps. I know we can run the fireplace and heater and the coffee pot BUT plug the toaster in and pop it goes!! Just a thought.

[ARJ]

Here is a link showing the current (watts) draw for different appliances. You, in all probability have seen something similar in the past.

http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=10040

Remember too that any battery chargers such as phone, camera, etc will also draw some current.

[sreigle]

Thanks. I also have one of those plugin devices that measures the actual amperage draw. Somewhere I have a list showing the draw of just about everything I could measure, including both low and high positions on the electric heaters. In a place this small you'd think it would be impossible to not be able to find notes like that. Sheesh. I guess I can measure it again.

[ARJ]

quote:Originally posted by sreigle

Thanks. I also have one of those plugin devices that measures the actual amperage draw. Somewhere I have a list showing the draw of just about everything I could measure, including both low and high positions on the electric heaters. In a place this small you'd think it would be impossible to not be able to find notes like that. Sheesh. I guess I can measure it again.

You probably filed it in that "special place" so you could always find it.

[sreigle]

Actually, I have it in a locker inside the basement storage, with my other setup things. I also use it to check for ground faults, etc., before plugging the house into the park's electrical post. So, it's one of those rare occasions where I can actually go right to it! Write it down, it doesn't happen often!