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Old 07-26-2009, 07:55 AM   #1
GUNNY
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tire blow out

2004 Montana, have now had two right rear blow outs on back axle, one
in o4 about 4 mo,s new and just three days ago in 09. Tires are new july
08, LT235/85R16 radial @ 80 Psi with tow miles from Salt Lake to Diego
and to Ill. Any one having same problem on any axle???
 
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:20 AM   #2
sreigle
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Right rear is where all but maybe one of our several flats/blowouts occurred. I have no idea why. What brand of tires are on the rig?
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:17 AM   #3
Art-n-Marge
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What brand of tires are on the Monty? You also need to know the load rating of your tires and the weight capacity of your tires.

Then you must know your rig's weight at both axles. Do you know how to determine this?

One thing that can shorten the life of the tires at the rear especially the right rear is curb jumping. Your rig combination is quite long and turning out of driveways may cause the rear tires to end up jumping off the curb or at an angle since the turns are sharper. This can cause more stress on the sidewalls.

If you can provide more information about your tires, maybe the MOC members can provide more ideas.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:37 PM   #4
Gramps
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I can't be certain on the Montanas', as the location of the fresh water and waste tanks are different from the SOB I used to have. With that trailer, we had the same issue and discovered it was a combination of issues. One, we traveled with the water tank full which added almost 400lbs of water in the tank which was located inside, above, and behind the right rear. Second, we were towing with the trailer in the nose high position, which placed more weight on the rear axle. Since we figured that out, we had the axles flipped( which the Montana doesn't need)to bring the trailer level, and, unless we are boondocking, we travel with a minimum amount of water in the fresh water tank. We've experienced no further problems since making those changes.

Although I believe the fresh water tank in the Montana is located between the frame rails, I'm pretty sure it is behind the rear axle. If you travel long distances, 60 gallons of water equates to almost 500 lbs at the rear of the rig which would put a considerable load on the rear tires. If you aren't running with a full tank, there may be an alignment problem with that axle, but that wouldn't fully explain why only the right rear seems to have the problem.

Good Luck
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:23 PM   #5
sreigle
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge



One thing that can shorten the life of the tires at the rear especially the right rear is curb jumping.
Art, you obviously have more knowledge and experience with this than I do. I am at a loss to understand why rolling over a curb would hurt the right rear tire more than a tire on any other axle position. Would you please enlighten me? Thank you.

Gunny, I have no idea why the right rear seems to be the one I've had the most trouble with, especially since we have only very rarely rolled over a curb. However, there have been some problems with certain brands of tires. If you could tell us what brand has been troublesome for you, maybe we can help. Or maybe not. But we will try.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:37 AM   #6
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Gramps, I believe you may be on to something there, overweight on that right rear tire. Ours was a 3295RK, which has axles a bit farther aft than most to shift some of the weight forward because of the rear kitchen. But I never really thought about where the water tanks are located. We normally run with the fresh water tank 2/3 full and have run down the road with waste tanks nearly full when we were not in a sewer site and didn't want to take the time to dump, figuring we'll dump tonight when we have a sewer site. Thanks for the thoughts. I think you may have nailed it. I cannot remember where the tanks are on the 2003 3295RK, unfortunately.
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:27 AM   #7
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Hi Steve, I have been told by a couple of persons (one tire guy and one RV guy) and have read that when a tire jumps off a curb at an angle that the sidewall can be weakened over time because the full weight of that tire that is now riding on the sidewall and the curb corner can "cut" into the tire. I believe they were trying to tell me to keep the weight on the bottom of the tire never on the sidewall as much as possible.

Since under normal circumstances, the right turn is the most severe turn and usually next to a curb, I watch for this religiously. I haven't jumped a curb since I heard of it and prefer to swing as wide as possible to avoid it. Prior to that, I would do it, feel the jump and just drive on like it was okay.

I hope I am explaining it correctly. But it was something I heard long ago, and have tried to follow religiously. I still see plenty of 5er or Travel Trailers cut their right rear tires when making turns and leaping off curb corners, but I also see plenty of people drive 70-75 on ST tires rated for 65MPH, too. To each their own, eh?

On edit: Gramps hits another point that compounds curb jumping problems for a right tire. The more the weight, the worse the "cut". Maybe this is why LTs can be better than STs. My Goodyear Marathon STs only have one ply on the sidewall and 5 on the tread, and my LTs have two plies on the sidewall with 5 plies on the tread.
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:05 PM   #8
jchw
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After going through the tire replacement exercise with our Mission (made in China) tires, I've found that LT tires, even if they're Load Range E, do not last as well nor are as durable as ST tires. Goodyear Marathon ST235/80/16's are 10 ply Load Range E. Don't have a lot of miles on mine yet, but after going through the Mission fiasco, I feel much better after talking to, and getting a set of Goodyears...

John in Wichita
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:47 PM   #9
Art-n-Marge
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Yes, jchw, I think the RV's STs have 10 plies as so do my TV's LTs. I went by the label on the side and may not have read everything correctly on the ply count. I will check this tomorrow and update my post on ply count. I don't want to get in trouble with the tire police.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:56 AM   #10
sreigle
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I agree hitting a curb is not good on tires but there have been a few times in our couple hundred thousand miles of towing that it was unavoidable. All I could do was take it as slowly as possible. But we try to avoid hitting curbs. Some Montanas have the major appliances on the right, some on the left, some on the rear. So the right side doesn't always carry the most weight.

I'm still having trouble understanding why the right rear takes more beating than any other position. Nor can I understand why a right turn is more severe than a left turn. That just doesn't make sense to me. But, a lot of things don't make sense to this old mind.

I also don't understand why hitting a curb would be harder on the right rear than the right front. It seems to this simple mind that the right front hits the curb when the rig is basically level and thus has to lift the entire weight of the right side of the coach. When the following tire, the right rear, subsequently hits the curb, the right front has already lifted the rig and tilted it, shifting weight to the left, making it so the right rear has less weight to lift. Seems to me the right rear is getting less of the abuse than the right front. And the tires on the left side are probably temporarily carrying more weight then they are rated for.

And I can't understand why the right turn is more severe than the left. Tires are in the same relative position on both sides, unless there is an axle alignment problem. Turns are just as sharp, etc. Hmmm, this one is probably beyond my ability to understand.

Obviously this is all beyond me so I'm not going to discuss it any more. I'll never understand anyhow. Sometimes it's nice to just be a simple-minded guy. Life is so much easier that way. I like it and will continue with my blissful ignorance.
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:23 AM   #11
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I think what Art means is that on a right hand turn, you turn sharper since you have to turn into the near lane. On a left hand turn, the turn is not as sharp since you are crossing over to the far side lane(s).
But I also would think the front tire (on either side) would suffer more when jumping a curb since it would be the one climbing up the curb and supporting most of the weight during that climb.
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:32 AM   #12
sreigle
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That's probably what he was thinking, about the sharper right turn. There are still many times we make a very sharp left turn, such as into a pullthrough site, but probably not as often as to the right. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:00 AM   #13
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Hey Steve,

I think you are understanding my point now. Jumping curbs is not good any time because of the corner of the curb cutting into a tire especially on turns.

When turning right into a driveway more times than not if the front tire hits a curb, the rear one will hit it even worse. I am not sure going slow will benefit because the curb edge will have a longer time with the trailer weight to cut into a tire. On the other hand going fast through the turn then causes a jolt on the curb that might not be good either. Same thing with exiting on a right turn.

On the left turn most driveways are wide when exitting and therefore avoiding the left curb is easier. Only when the exit point is one lane wide the risk is greater, but even in that case, you turn left farther out into the street to enter the right side of a throughway. On a right turn the turn is more severe and the odds are higher to "curb cut" your right rear tire.

My observation is that on a turn whatever the front tire goes through off a curb, then the rear one will probably get it worse.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:27 AM   #14
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I think he is saying you insulted his intelligence and many years of experience and that he was being ironic and you did not understand that. If I am wrong then ok but I think I am right. You mean well but you can insult people sometimes these people are not stupid you know.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:08 PM   #15
grampachet
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I have heard that the rear tires go flat more often than the front because the front will kick up a nail or whatever and then the rear gets it somehow. Just another assumption.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:22 PM   #16
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Now *that* makes sense. Thanks.
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Old 07-30-2009, 06:41 AM   #17
DonandJudy_12
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If tire construction has not changed, 10 ply rated tires do not actually have 10 plies- My 10 ply rated tires actually have 2 ply sidewalls plus 2 steel belts on the face of the tire- Check the sidewall of your tires for a description of the construction- Tires are very susceptable to hidden damage when driven off curbs- The damage will ultimately result in tire failure when least expected- Don
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