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09-24-2021, 03:33 PM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Anderson
Posts: 2,587
M.O.C. #22835
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Why a 1 ton dually?
Invariably, there is someone who makes a post on this, and other RV related forums, asking the question, "Can my truck tow (this) or (that)?"
And what follows is a discussion that often leaves the original poster frustrated because he is not accepting the answers to justify his under-par vehicle for the trailer in question.
And all too often, such bull-headedness results in a post 3 months later stating, "I just purchased a heftier tow vehicle." Often times, these posts are made by folks wanting a "daily driver" more than a tow vehicle.
I have repeatedly made this statement:
“You really need to think in terms of what is the ultimate extreme usage you'll be experiencing with your tow vehicle, not what is the lightest usage and hope it's OK when the extreme happens."
Well, the extreme happened to me last week, and these words kept echoing through my mind which made me glad, and thankful, I bit the bullet on the cost of a dually, the cost of diligent upkeep, and the cost of simple operation.
We left Central Indiana, Friday Sept 17 for a KOA South of Chicago where we spent the first night of our current journey. The second night (Saturday night) we stayed at another KOA in Wisconsin. By now we were over 400 miles from home.
When we pulled out Sunday morning, we hadn't traveled more than 3 miles when I realized there were no trailer brakes. Of course my wife and I had a very diligent and serious discussion about how to handle the problem. I decided to keep driving the additional 250 (plus) miles to make it to Baraga State Park in Michigan .... without trailer brakes.
This was Sunday and we had a week long reservation for this State Park. Rather than going to another campground for an indefinite length of time to get the truck repairs was, well, ... simply not an option.
Three things were now in our favor.... first ... I know my trailer. Second I know my truck. Third, I know my driving skills.
Yes, the front tires of the truck skidded a couple times when I attempted to stop too hard and too fast. Under normal conditions with trailer brakes, a second incident would have not been an incident at all, but a stop light turned red faster than expected causing another squeel from the tires. But all was well.
I must attribute the successful arrival at Baraga, Michigan on my truck. A smaller, lighter, 4 wheeled vehicle could have never extremely challeng to brake for truck and 14,000 pound trailer in tow. Careful driving, slowing down far, far ahead of turns, stops, and exchanges paid off, making the actual "braking" a very short distance. I know drivers behind me were probably annoyed. But one thing I noticed about Michigan .... folks here are really nice! No one honked at me, gave me the middle finger, cut me off in a rage, or yelled obscenities at me when they passed. .... Dang, I wish people in Indiana were this nice.
So, we got the trailer parked at the State Park and Monday morning we found a GM dealership that could service the truck. The appointment was Thursday at 8:00 am and we had to get out of bed at 5:00 am to make the drive. All worked out well.
It turned out to be the trailer brake relay that's located near the rear axle. I'm glad it wasn't the integrated brake controller, or something worse. $280 and 1 and 1/2 hours after we arrived, we were on our way back to Baraga.
We leave Baraga on Sunday for Wilderness State Park in Michigan on Sunday for our second week.
So, in this case .... bigger is better. Bigger paid off. Bigger got the job done. Bigger proved to the right choice in 2014 when we purchased the truck!
I share this ramble with everyone to seriously consider, how would you handle your trailer if it lost all brakes and you were a few hundred miles from home. Hopefully, your tow vehicle is hefty enough to brake for both truck and trailer, and hopefully your driving skills will proved to be excellent!
__________________
Who you are right now is a sum total off all you use to be.
2019 Montana High Country 375FL
2014 Chevy Silverado Duramax, 6.6L Dually
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09-24-2021, 05:29 PM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Catoosa
Posts: 780
M.O.C. #18384
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First let me state that I think that a 1 ton dually is the best choice for towing a 14,000+lb trailer. Now since your particular truck uses the same brakes as a 3/4 ton truck of the same year, being a dually has no added benefit in braking over the equivalent 3/4 ton. In fact it has slightly worse braking since it weighs more.
__________________
2015 3100RL legacy...2005 Ford F-250 CC SB. Tows like a charm! 4/19 Updated to 2017 Chevy 3500 CC SB SRW -hope it tows as well as my F 250 did!
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09-24-2021, 06:12 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hagerstown
Posts: 866
M.O.C. #16013
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biGGer is bETter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theunz
First let me state that I think that a 1 ton dually is the best choice for towing a 14,000+lb trailer. Now since your particular truck uses the same brakes as a 3/4 ton truck of the same year, being a dually has no added benefit in braking over the equivalent 3/4 ton. In fact it has slightly worse braking since it weighs more.
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I believe 6 wheels gripping the road in a panic stop with a significant load on them will be far better than 4 wheels even with the same size brake rotors. The weight difference would be a full tank of fuel as apposed to a 1/4 tank of fuel along with a fat toad driver as apposed to an average weight driver or the difference between an Andersen hitch and a slider hitch weighing 240 lbs. Or an aux tank full of fuel and a generator in the back of the truck. I`ll stick with a dually any day.
__________________
2018.5 3791 Rear Den Montana, on the lake ![Fishing](images/rvsmilies/fishing.gif) no 3rd A/C, Mini Split, just do it
Electric Brakes ![EEK!](images/smilies/eek.gif) ..... Disk Brakes, it`s the only way
F350 Ford Dually 4:10`s w/bags (payload 5595 lbs) Sumo Springs 63 gal aux tank
Reese Goosebox Mor/Ryde SRE 4000 X Factors Monroe shocks.... real smooth ride
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09-24-2021, 06:29 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,550
M.O.C. #2283
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My motor home with 6 tires has 4 more inches of rubber on the road than my F250 with 4 tires.
Lynwood
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09-24-2021, 06:45 PM
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#5
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Site Team
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Oro Valley
Posts: 3,930
M.O.C. #20477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchmenSport
Invariably, there is someone who makes a post on this, and other RV related forums, asking the question, "Can my truck tow (this) or (that)?"
And what follows is a discussion that often leaves the original poster frustrated because he is not accepting the answers to justify his under-par vehicle for the trailer in question.
And all too often, such bull-headedness results in a post 3 months later stating, "I just purchased a heftier tow vehicle." Often times, these posts are made by folks wanting a "daily driver" more than a tow vehicle.
I have repeatedly made this statement:
“You really need to think in terms of what is the ultimate extreme usage you'll be experiencing with your tow vehicle, not what is the lightest usage and hope it's OK when the extreme happens."
Well, the extreme happened to me last week, and these words kept echoing through my mind which made me glad, and thankful, I bit the bullet on the cost of a dually, the cost of diligent upkeep, and the cost of simple operation.
We left Central Indiana, Friday Sept 17 for a KOA South of Chicago where we spent the first night of our current journey. The second night (Saturday night) we stayed at another KOA in Wisconsin. By now we were over 400 miles from home.
When we pulled out Sunday morning, we hadn't traveled more than 3 miles when I realized there were no trailer brakes. Of course my wife and I had a very diligent and serious discussion about how to handle the problem. I decided to keep driving the additional 250 (plus) miles to make it to Baraga State Park in Michigan .... without trailer brakes.
This was Sunday and we had a week long reservation for this State Park. Rather than going to another campground for an indefinite length of time to get the truck repairs was, well, ... simply not an option.
Three things were now in our favor.... first ... I know my trailer. Second I know my truck. Third, I know my driving skills.
Yes, the front tires of the truck skidded a couple times when I attempted to stop too hard and too fast. Under normal conditions with trailer brakes, a second incident would have not been an incident at all, but a stop light turned red faster than expected causing another squeel from the tires. But all was well.
I must attribute the successful arrival at Baraga, Michigan on my truck. A smaller, lighter, 4 wheeled vehicle could have never extremely challeng to brake for truck and 14,000 pound trailer in tow. Careful driving, slowing down far, far ahead of turns, stops, and exchanges paid off, making the actual "braking" a very short distance. I know drivers behind me were probably annoyed. But one thing I noticed about Michigan .... folks here are really nice! No one honked at me, gave me the middle finger, cut me off in a rage, or yelled obscenities at me when they passed. .... Dang, I wish people in Indiana were this nice.
So, we got the trailer parked at the State Park and Monday morning we found a GM dealership that could service the truck. The appointment was Thursday at 8:00 am and we had to get out of bed at 5:00 am to make the drive. All worked out well.
It turned out to be the trailer brake relay that's located near the rear axle. I'm glad it wasn't the integrated brake controller, or something worse. $280 and 1 and 1/2 hours after we arrived, we were on our way back to Baraga.
We leave Baraga on Sunday for Wilderness State Park in Michigan on Sunday for our second week.
So, in this case .... bigger is better. Bigger paid off. Bigger got the job done. Bigger proved to the right choice in 2014 when we purchased the truck!
I share this ramble with everyone to seriously consider, how would you handle your trailer if it lost all brakes and you were a few hundred miles from home. Hopefully, your tow vehicle is hefty enough to brake for both truck and trailer, and hopefully your driving skills will proved to be excellent!
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David,
Driving 250 miles without trailer brakes for convenience sounds like a poor decision no matter what your tow vehicle is.
__________________
Zack and Donna plus Millie and Ranger
2018 3160RL
"Life is too short to stay indoors, enjoy the ride!"
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09-24-2021, 07:19 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Catoosa
Posts: 780
M.O.C. #18384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bshgto
I believe 6 wheels gripping the road in a panic stop with a significant load on them will be far better than 4 wheels even with the same size brake rotors. The weight difference would be a full tank of fuel as apposed to a 1/4 tank of fuel along with a fat toad driver as apposed to an average weight driver or the difference between an Andersen hitch and a slider hitch weighing 240 lbs. Or an aux tank full of fuel and a generator in the back of the truck. I`ll stick with a dually any day.
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I didn’t say a significant weight difference, in fact I said slightly worse. As for 4 wheels on the rear vs 2, the footprint will be the same if the weight is the same. Each of the dually wheels will have a much smaller contact patch than the SRW, total rubber on the road will be the same. I drove a dually for 10 years and about 175,000 miles. I can say unequivocally that it had the worst rear wheel traction of any vehicle I have ever owned.
Again, I will state, a one ton dually is the best truck for towing a 14,000lb+ trailer. It has an advantage in stability and payload, but not in traction.
__________________
2015 3100RL legacy...2005 Ford F-250 CC SB. Tows like a charm! 4/19 Updated to 2017 Chevy 3500 CC SB SRW -hope it tows as well as my F 250 did!
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09-24-2021, 08:41 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,166
M.O.C. #6433
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The above really raises an interesting question. It is often stated that a DRW has less traction on ice, or on even wet surfaces, than a SRW. Due I suppose to the fact than even though it has more rubber contact to the road on the rear wheels, the downward force on that rubber is less because of that weight being spread over more surface area, i.e. lower pounds per square inch contact to the road.
Now, does that also mean braking would be less for that same reason? Has anyone ever seen a technical article where anyone ever actually tested the stopping distance of a DRW vs a SRW with equal weights?
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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09-24-2021, 09:24 PM
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#8
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Established Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Garner Lake
Posts: 28
M.O.C. #19245
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Theunz & BB_TX are right on.
I live in northern Canada and have owned both SRW and DRW 1 ton trucks. There is no question the dually has superior stability and load capacity, but traction.......doubtful.
Example: Two essentially identical trucks, same tires, no payload in the box. ...one a SRW, the other a DRW. Then drive each in snow under 2 wheel drive. The SRW has a far better chance than the DRW to get you anywhere. The DRW would be essentially useless with far less traction at the rear wheels.
We went the HDT route (Volvo 730) a few years ago and one of the main reasons was stopping power. We pull a 3790rd. When pulling it on interstates through cities (Denver, Salt Lake City), a couple near misses under panic stop conditions convinced us to go that route. Considering the weight of a 1 ton truck versus the weight of the trailers we run, it's never good when the tail wags the dog.
__________________
Kevin & Yolanda Maksymyk
2009 Volvo 730 Custom RV Hauler & 2013 SmartCar
2017 Montana 3790rd
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09-25-2021, 12:47 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Carson City
Posts: 2,017
M.O.C. #21963
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"Yes, the front tires of the truck skidded a couple times when I attempted to stop too hard and too fast. Under normal conditions with trailer brakes, a second incident would have not been an incident at all, but a stop light turned red faster than expected causing another squeel from the tires. But all was well."
Skidding around on the roads for the purpose of reaching a vacation destination? I suppose all was well that you didn't jacknife into some unsuspecting motorist.
__________________
2016 3160, Legacy, Sailuns, Splendide 2100 xc vented, 1 1/2" axle lift blocks, disk brakes. 2014 Ram 3500 SRW SWB 4X4 6.7 Aisin Mega Cab, EBC slotted disks and brakes, Titan fuel tank.
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09-25-2021, 07:03 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hagerstown
Posts: 866
M.O.C. #16013
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biGGer is bETter
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX
The above really raises an interesting question. It is often stated that a DRW has less traction on ice, or on even wet surfaces, than a SRW. Due I suppose to the fact than even though it has more rubber contact to the road on the rear wheels, the downward force on that rubber is less because of that weight being spread over more surface area, i.e. lower pounds per square inch contact to the road.
Now, does that also mean braking would be less for that same reason? Has anyone ever seen a technical article where anyone ever actually tested the stopping distance of a DRW vs a SRW with equal weights?
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If you watch the video called HamMer Time just a couple of threads down or in the General Discussion section you`ll see that I was able to stop from 65 mph to zero pulling 14500 lbs of trailer in the pouring rain in very short order to avoid an accident. MY truck has proven it self to be a very well designed truck so I speak from documented experience. In the north east where I live we experience all the extremes of weather. I have not experienced any of the above problems in the above posts driving my dually un loaded or loaded. Have no idea where those issues comes from.
As usual I`m reading nothing but opinions and theory and no facts to back up what`s said, but it sounds good. The whole business about contact patch is very suspect as the air pressure in a dually rear is 65LBS, much different than a SRW at 80 LBS. I would think the engineers at Ford or others have taken that in to account when designing the trucks for safety and have equaled things out not one will be less than another but that is just an opinion. I`ll take a dually under any circumstances or condition.
__________________
2018.5 3791 Rear Den Montana, on the lake ![Fishing](images/rvsmilies/fishing.gif) no 3rd A/C, Mini Split, just do it
Electric Brakes ![EEK!](images/smilies/eek.gif) ..... Disk Brakes, it`s the only way
F350 Ford Dually 4:10`s w/bags (payload 5595 lbs) Sumo Springs 63 gal aux tank
Reese Goosebox Mor/Ryde SRE 4000 X Factors Monroe shocks.... real smooth ride
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09-25-2021, 07:25 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lobelville
Posts: 2,128
M.O.C. #6650
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DRW Tire pressure?
The 2022 GMC Denali 3500hd states 80 psi. However I run 75, with Michelin tires. As for dually vs single rear wheels, thats your choice. Many of the Montana's do not require 1 ton trucks, in my opinion. Todays 1 tons, and 3/4 tons have towing and weight capacity, much more that the older generation trucks. Most who have 1 ton trucks will say you need a 1 ton truck? Do the research and go with what makes you comfortable. I still believe driver ability is the key. Good luck with your needs and wants.
Happy trails.
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09-25-2021, 08:36 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,166
M.O.C. #6433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bshgto
............
MY truck has proven it self to be a very well designed truck so I speak from documented experience. In the north east where I live we experience all the extremes of weather. I have not experienced any of the above problems in the above posts driving my dually un loaded or loaded. Have no idea where those issues comes from.
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I am not questioning anyone's personal experience or opinion. Obviously those experiences and opinions vary widely according to the poster. I towed my Monte for 14 years with an SRW with no problem on traction, braking, or stability. While others would say no way would they do it. My weights were well within my SRW rating.
What I am wondering is if any kind of qualified testing organization has actually tested traction and braking of one vs the other under various road and off road conditions and posted the results.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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09-25-2021, 08:49 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sebring
Posts: 3,659
M.O.C. #9969
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OK since we're now talking experiences here's mine:
We lived in Western NY with Lake Erie to our West and Lake Ontario to our North and I worked in the City of Rochester a 50 mile drive from home to work. I normally had a commuter car, but when the weather got really bad my go to vehicle was my '05 Chevy Dually with between 700 to 800 pounds of sand bags behind the axle, Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor tires, fronts at 70#, rears at 65# and that thing was just about unstopable. Little 4 wheel drive SUVs would pass me, but normally a few miles down the road I'd pass them in the medium.
With all that said, no way would I go 200 miles without trailer brakes, just to many idiots on the roads.
__________________
Michelle & Ann
2018 Chevy 3500HD High Country DRW 4X4 Crew Cab w/Duramax/Allison, Formally 2010 Montana 2955RL, Now Loaded 2016 SOB, Mor/ryde IS, Disc Brakes & Pin Box, Comfort Ride Hitch, Sailun 17.5 Tires.
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09-25-2021, 10:51 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Carson City
Posts: 2,017
M.O.C. #21963
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Speaking of brakes (or lack thereof) I always thought my truck was underpowered in that area. Thus the switch to EBC brakes as noted below. Driving solo is much safer and towing shows improvement as well. Aside from trailer disks it's the next best thing.
__________________
2016 3160, Legacy, Sailuns, Splendide 2100 xc vented, 1 1/2" axle lift blocks, disk brakes. 2014 Ram 3500 SRW SWB 4X4 6.7 Aisin Mega Cab, EBC slotted disks and brakes, Titan fuel tank.
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09-25-2021, 02:36 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 525
M.O.C. #19994
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we went with a (450) 1-1/2 ton Dually, higher capacity and larger brakes than a 1 ton (350)
__________________
![](image.php?s=51541e8e76d0b845d7156407106852d8&u=19994&type=sigpic&dateline=1518306279)
The "Black Pearl"-2017 3731FL Legacy Package
2017 F-450 Platinum, 6.7 PSD
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09-25-2021, 03:34 PM
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#16
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,364
M.O.C. #4831
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Actually the F450 has a lower cargo capacity than a F350 dually due to the increased weight of the truck.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB
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09-26-2021, 07:41 AM
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#17
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: small town
Posts: 88
M.O.C. #10849
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I guess the thing that jumps out at me is not the constant pi__ing match of 250 vs 350 or 450 or SRW vs DRW. Its the fact of pulling a 14000+ pound trailer 250+ miles with no brakes.
Sounds to me like even coming to a stop because a stop light changed had you locking up the brakes on the truck. Imagine stopping at hiway speed.
I might have pulled mine a few miles to the repair shop with no brakes, but if I would have pulled 250+ miles with no brakes I don't think I would post it on here as a good point for SRW vs DRW.
Just my 2 cents
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09-26-2021, 09:05 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lobelville
Posts: 2,128
M.O.C. #6650
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Many do not understand this! It is a fact! F450, has a lower cargo capacity that a F 350.
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09-26-2021, 03:59 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Battleford
Posts: 627
M.O.C. #26690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delaine and Lindy
Many do not understand this! It is a fact! F450, has a lower cargo capacity that a F 350.
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You say that like it's a bad thing
The reason the 450 has less cargo capacity is that it is in the same class of truck as the 350 dually, with the same maximum GVWR, but the 450 weighs more.
Some of the reasons the 450 weighs more includes having much larger axles and brakes.
So... in the context of this thread about stopping power if your trailer brakes fail, the 450 will outperform all other 1 ton pickups.
But, I am also in the camp of seriously questioning the whole notion of traveling 250 miles after knowing the trailer brakes were not working. It seems the justification was something like "I have a dually so I will be fine". That is dangerous thinking! I'm glad things worked out, but it could have ended badly.
To me, the debate between SRW and DRW is often exaggerated by both sides. This post does nothing to help that debate, IMHO.
Brad
__________________
2021 Montana 3790RD, Legacy, Super Solar Flex
2020 RAM 3500 Limited, HO
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09-26-2021, 04:26 PM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lobelville
Posts: 2,128
M.O.C. #6650
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Never said it was a bad thing, just showing there is capacity difference.
Agree the larger the Truck more stopping power. My Freightliner sports chassis, had more stopping ability that the GM 4500hd, 3500hd and 2500hd.
Be happy, enjoy life!
Happy trails.
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