Hot & Cold Water Drain

[CRUZIN 2]

This might have been done before but I replaced the two water drains (Hot & Cold) with house outside (freeze proof)water faucets. The reason I did this, was last December we went to Oklahoma to our son & grandson's. When we arrived home to drain it for winter we couldn't because the lines that hang down from the basement were frozen. Had to use a cordless drill to drill the lines out, not fun at 10 below. I have some pictures on my album at www.picturetrail.com/my64gal

[steves]

Larry - Great idea. My lines froze up this year on the way back from Texas. When you pulled the bottom of trailer off did you have insulation in the underbelly? Your pictures look like I'm seeing insulation. My unit has just a thin reflective material that's suppose to be the Artic package. I added pipe insulation around the water drain pipes in the underbelly but have not changed the drain valve. Looks like you have a good idea.

Steve

[sreigle]

Larry, that's a great idea! Mine are heat taped but I may look into doing what you did. Thanks for posting.

[CRUZIN 2]

Steves

Yes you did see some extra insulation after we purchased it. I added 3 1/2 inch unfaced battes R=11 and under the holding tanks I used one inch styrofoam so the heat could circulate under the tanks.

The plastic coupling I used on the frostproof sillcock 1/2 inch (water shut off) was different. It had something like a washer in the center of the coupling. I used teflon tape on the shut off end but not the other end that screws on to the tee, hand tighten only. Any questions about it, I will try to help. Larry & LaVonne

[steves]

As I said my drain pipes froze on the way back from Texas (went down to 10 degrees) and so did all the forward water lines (toilet, tub/shower and bedroom sink. Kitched water lines were ok.

Larry - when you added the insulation did you do the whole underbelly? I was considering do this but did't want to take off all the bottom pannels. I only dropped 1 pannel and insulated the drain lines for about 8 feet, as long as 1 piece of pipe insulation.

Steve - I know you spent last winter in some cold conditions. Could you please recap all that you did to winterize your unit. I plan on insulating the other water lines that are run in the basement with pipe insulation too but am not sure how well that will protect them. Do you use any heat in the basement during cold weather? You indicated you had heat tape on you lines?

Nobody has mentioned the drain for the freswater holding tank which is also exposed. I assume the fresh water tank is empty.

Thanks,
Steves

[sreigle]

Steve, we had water in the freshwater tank but the only time we used it during cold weather was one night when the park manager turned off all the water and didn't tell us. I later worked out with him not to do that. I then heat taped their pipe, prior to the spigot. I also used a heat taped water hose from spigot to Montana. And the heat tape on the low point drains. Those I wrapped with insulation over the heat tape. I made sure this heat tape was ok with that per the instructions. Also, this heat tape could be coiled/srapped around the pipes. The longer heat tape I used on the hose had to be run parallel to the hose, not coiled around it.

We also used the 3M window film, available at Walmart or any hardware store. Same stuff made for stick homes. If you have the doublepane windows you won't need this.

I also used the expanding foam insulation in every opening I could find in the belly AND in the basement. I'm not sure I would foam the opening where the low point drains come through. The heat tape and insulation should be enough but leaving that opening in the belly should allow a little bit of additional heat to the drains. I'm not sure about that.

I also used the foam tubes on exposed water pipes in the basement. I've never seen the pipes freeze in the basement but preferred not to risk it.

After doing all the insulating, open both locker doors (if daylight, or use a flashlight in the basement if dark) then go in the coach and look back in the pocket for the pocket door, under the sliding door. If you see daylight, you have some more foaming to do in the basement. This was a tip from MOC I picked up. I was surprised how much cold air came in that way. No more, though.

I also put some pieces of loose insulation behind the door of the city water hookup and also the outside shower, I figured as long as we are connected to water I can't really drain the outside shower so best insulate it and hope for the best. It still works so I guess we were ok.

Although my water hose is heat taped, the point where it connects to the Montana has an inch or two that is not insulated. I wrapped that area with loose insulation and duct taped it, before putting the roll insulation behind the door to that area. I'm not positive that was necessary, but, again...

The heat tape on the low point drains seem to have made the biggest difference. After doing this we had a night forecast to be below zero. I woke up in the wee hours, so checked our thermometer (the window type) and turned on the Weather Channel. Three degrees above zero and we still had water at all faucets! Went back to bed. When I arose for the morning, checked again and it was 5 degrees below zero. We were frozen. We still had water at the toilet and cold water in the bathroom, just because of the location of the city water connection relative to the point of freezing (probably water lines laying on the frame). The newest Montanas have the water lines higher in the belly, just under the floor, and do not touch the frames. We were told that at the Tampa Show in January.

I've also taped roll insulation, covered by foamboard, on the outside walls in the cabinets in the kitchen, particularly in the slide. We get a lot of cold airflow in that area.

Also, on our 3295RK, there is no insulation in the rear cap for some reason. There is a large hole for wires to come through and we get quite a cold breeze off that. This is in the same compartment as the water heater. I shoved insulation in there best I could to fill that hole, then insulated along the back wall under cabinets, behind the desk, etc. It helped a lot but not enough. RC and Samantha dropped the pan back there and shoved insulation up there. I understand the new 3295's have insulation in that rear cap.

Steves, I may be missing something but this is about all I can think of at the moment.

[CRUZIN 2]

Steves

Yes I added insulation 3 1/2 inch R=11 to the entire basement, it wasn't that bad if you use a cordless drill. I started at the rear, some of the panels you don't have to drop because there is enough room. You can push it in with a yard stick or something about that size, but under the holding tanks I used one inch Styrofoam (the good stuff) it's harder to work with, that's why I use the fiberglass.

We camped 10 days at below freezing temps and didn't have any problems.

Larry & LaVonne

[steves]

Larry / Steve - Thank you very much for the additional info. I guess I have some more work to do to get mine ready for the cold weather.

Steves

[Montana_2785]

This whole thread sounds more like what I was expecting "Artic Pack" to be like....

Eric

[sreigle]

Steves, yours is newer than ours and may not need all these things. Hopefully when you check, you'll find that's the case.