Towing OK?

[barmar]

Thinking of purchasing a 2007 Montana 3400RL with a GVWR of 14,000 lb and a UVW of 11,650 lb--can I safely tow this rig with a GMC 3500 CC LB SRW with a 6.6 Duramax/Allison Combo? Thanks in advance for any info/advice. B

[NCFischers]

Piece of cake. You should have no problem towing with your rig. You've got a good setup.

[Jolu]

I agree with Jim, you should not have a problem towing with your rig.

[Trailer Trash 2]

Your TV won't even know it's back there.
Hook up and drive.

[Sinterior]

Hi Barmar, I see you're another Canadian. If you live in BC make sure all your weights are within limits and that you have the "endorsement 51" (house trailer unlimited weight without air) on your license, you need it to legally tow anything over 4600kg, 10120lbs. This year is the first time I've seen CVSE pulling RV's over, at least in the Kamloops area. If you voluntarily weight your truck and 5th wheel at a BC weigh scale and your trailer axles are over, they will ask you what license you have. I did that and was told because I voluntarily did a weight check they wouldn't ticket me or make me drop the trailer and was told, had I been pulled over and checked, I would have to drop the trailer or unload to the legal weight. Good luck doing that on ANY Montana.

Peter

[Delaine and Lindy]

In the lower 48 you shouldn't have a problem with weight. Our first Keystone was a Everest 343L and was pulled by a 2500HD and didn't have any problems. It was a little heavy on pin weight, and I think the Everest was about the same as the Montana as for as weight. Then went to a Cambridge 358 and upgraded to a 3500 DRW 1 ton and the Cambridge was very heavy my GVW was 25,600 pulled it for many thousands of miles and never a issure but I did have Disk brakes on the Cambridge. You shouldn't have a problem. There are many pulling the Montana with 2500HD's. However I recomend you weight the Truck and 5th wheel after loading for you trips and then you will know for sure about the weight. Pin weight is normaly always the problem with the 2500HDs. GBY....

[akf15e]

You should be good to go. Just be advised that it is possible to exceed GVWR (pin weight) on the SRW depending on what you carry. With my 2500HD I can easily exceed 9200 lbs, and often do by about 300 lbs or so. If you take the kitchen sink, lots of tools/firewood/dogs/etc. you can easily go the next 700 lbs and go over 3500 SRW GVWR (9900 lbs I believe).

Will it tow it? If you could see the hills I came up today in the Smoky Mts to get into my campsite, you wouldn't even have to ask that question. It'll pull a house!!

[deadeyenevermisses]

WOW, 25.6K on a 1 ton dually? I guess I shouldn't be so nervous about shedding "stuff". I'm at 24,840 with an 06 3500 DRW and my CGVWR is 23.5K.

[Art-n-Marge]

Hi Barmar,

You didn't mention what year of Chevy you have but there are two critical things to check on your truck. Newer trucks tend to have higher ratings for what I will mention.

First, on your door pillar there should be a label which mentions GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). Hopefully, on your 1 ton 3500 its about 11,000 lbs or higher. (A 3/4 ton 2500 will be anywhere between 8,500 to 10K depending on make/model, options and year). You will need the extra weight for the pin weight on the RV.

The second thing is the RAWR (Rear Axle Weight Rating). This is the maximum weight allowed at the rear wheels, including gear and the trailer. Hopefully the rating is about 6,000 to 7,000 lbs.

If you go out and look at your pillar now and post your numbers that should be able for us to answer your question better.

In marketing and sales brochures the posted pin weights on an RV are often TOO LIGHT. You won't know the weight until you buy the rig, load it up, then weigh it. But with your rig and past comments from 1 ton owners in the membership you should be within the necessary numbers.

Other forums, RV websites, empirical measurements will state that the pin weight of a 5er is about 18% to 25% of the 5er GVWR because the tires on are set back for improved handling. The previous statements were 10% for a TT and 15% for a 5er and is no longer the case. This means the weight of the items one stores in the front of the rig, and the front storage compartments in the rig will add to the pin weight very quickly. Coupled with all the things us RVers put in the truck bed (tool boxes, auxiliary fuel tanks, etc.) the rear of the truck's weight will also increase rapidly but not exceed the RAWR. Whatever the case, then the GVWR should not be exceeded - you might find that the FAWR and RAWR will exceed the GVWR, so be very careful how you distribute the load. Finally, you, other passengers and everything carried in your crew cab will also add to the weight.

That said, you should be fine but you WILL need to weigh everything just to be sure.

deadeyenevermisses - you should be fine since you are better off because of your dually. I have a 3/4 ton SRW Ford and my CGWR is 23,200. I have got to expect your 23.5K is okay.

I am in the process of purchasing extra leaf springs from my dealer so I can increase my 3/4 ton to a 1 ton and improve my GVWR, RAWR and CGWR. I will effectively turn my F-250 into a "legal" F-350 by doing this.

[mail2us]

Art, the 2007 and forward NBS GVWRS are: 9200 for 3/4 and 9900 for 1 ton SRW. I believe the dually 1 ton is 11400? but not sure.

[helmick]

My 2002 Chevy 2500HD is 9200 GVWR

[Art-n-Marge]

Oh-Oh... barmar didn't mention the year of his vehicle and if a Chevy 3500 GVWR is 9900, then "barmar" might be close!

I have a Ford F-250 with a GVWR of 10000 and I am over if I load up the front areas of my rig. I have had to cut way back on what I bring along. Even though I have air bags, they only help with the ride and the aspect, NOT weight rating. I am in the process of adding additional Ford leaf springs that will provide another 1,500 lbs and then I can load up just fine.

The Keystone website claims a GVWR of over 15000 for a 2007 3400RL and ULWR of 11560. It also states the pin weight is 2000 lbs, but you can rest assured this goes up when you load it up and also put stuff in the truck bed.

Barmar, I suggest you get your truck weighed now (without the trailer) to confirm how much weight you have to give on your rear wheels. Go to the scales and weigh the front of the truck, then the whole truck, then the rear of the truck. These weights will let you know how much you can tow.

I realize many claim they have a particular truck, then a particular trailer and aren't having any problems, but weight ratings can be serious problems especially for tires, preventing premature wear of suspensions, driving too fast, climbing hills or stopping. Please be careful.

[barmar]

Thanks to all for helpful comments.

Art: It's a 2005 GMC and the numbers are as fol: GVWR: 9900 lbs; CCC: 2780 lbs; RAWR: 6500 lbs; and max GCWR: 23,500 lbs. Hope these help.
Cheers, Barry

[Art-n-Marge]

Good to know... on my Ford 4x4 F-250 my numbers are GVWR: 10000; RAWR: 6100 and max GCWR: 23,200. Our numbers are very close.

Now you know the maximum documented ratings. Next, you need to find out the actual ratings now by weighing your truck. Find a truck scale somewhere and get it weighed. Your truck has an extra 400 lbs at the rear axle versus my Ford. Keep in mind that if you carry and tow enough so that your RAWR is at 6500 lbs, then your front axle must weigh less than 3400 lbs in order to stay at or under your GVWR. Does this make sense?

[barmar]

Art: I have a 2007 Montana brochure and it lists the 3400RL as fol: Shipping weight (or UVW)=11,650 lbs and the Carrying Capacity (or UCC)=2325 lbs for a GVWR=13,975 or a rounded up 14,000 lbs.
Barry

[Art-n-Marge]

Hey Barry,

check this out: http://www.keystone-montana.com/inde...pecs&year=2007

It shows different... Now you know why actual weight and certification stickers are VERY important.

We are trying to do this without the 3400RL in front of us. When you see the actual unit check the front driver's side of the rig for the certification sticker that will state the actual numbers for the particular unit. Another location for a certification sticker is an upper kitchen cabinet door which will also list weights for the particular rig too.

You have the certification sticker for the truck but need to weigh it soon. On the rig all you have is unclear marketing/sales documentation. The rig's stickers are the ones that count, because most times they will have considered the actual installed options.

It is not unusual for marketing brochures, sales materials and the i-net to be different. The certification sticker is the best thing to START with followed by your actual weight measured with a truck scale.

Welcome to the world of RV weight complexities.

[TLightning]

Everybody likes to talk about the GVWR of their trucks, omitting the much more important statistic of carrying capacity. Look at the Tire And Loading Information sticker on the door post or door sill on the driver's side...it will give you the cargo capacity to the nearest one pound.

Fords are very heavy, and although they have a high GVWR for a 3/4 ton truck, the cargo capacity is often lower than a GM/Dodge with a much lower GVWR. At a recent truck/rv show, I saw a 3/4 ton PSD, CC, 4x4, King Ranch edition...it had a GVWR of 10,000 but the payload was UNDER 1,900, not near enough truck for any Montana.

A SRW Chevy/GMC 3500 has a GVWR of only 9,900 and only slightly more cargo capacity than the 3/4 ton...I'd be real careful with it. The engine and drive train are the same, so it will pull fine, cargo capacity will be the weak link.

[sreigle]

Art, you may or may not be aware Montana does mid-model year changes pretty much every year, usually in December. I guess you could call the early 2007 a 2007 and the later one a 2007 1/2. In that particular year, on the 3400RL, the early 2007 models came with 6000 lb Alko axles and GVWR of 13,975 lbs. In December 2006 Keystone switched to 7,000 lb. Dexter axles and upped the GVWR to 15,500 (I think that's the correct number if my math is correct).

When I talked with Keystone about this change they assured me the only structural change that would affect GVWR was the axle swap. Thus, the axles were the limiting factor on the early models. Since a year ago we swapped out our 6,000 lb axles for the 7,000 lb Dexter axles, our carrying capacity is, in my opinion, now higher. We were previously over the GVWR but were (just barely) under the axle ratings and considerably under the pinbox rating. Now we have a comfortable margin. I'm convinced there is very little to no margin in the ratings of those axles. I base that on the troubles we had with tires and axles going out of alignment on the 6k axles. We've had none of these problems with the 7k axles.

Anyhow, just wanted to point out the 2007's had a GVWR change on at least some of the models as part of the December mid-model year update.

[Art-n-Marge]

Well put Steve, which is why barmar needs to be concerned about potential, and actual weight ratings to have the right comfort for his rig combination.

The starting weight of around 11,600 is great for a 3/4 ton. As the options in the RV, additions to a truck and cargo we carry in either start to increase the amount of comfort starts getting compromised and for Barmar it's good he has a 1 ton to better the odds. But the ultimate step is to weigh our rigs just so we know where we stand.

The MOC has helped me learn a tremendous amount in this regard.

[billhoover]

quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge


The starting weight of around 11,600 is great for a 3/4 ton.

It depends on the truck. Earlier there is a post regarding the cargo capacity of a 3/4 ton Ford being less than 2,000#. Using the industry standard 20% of the RV's weight for pin weight, that makes the PW of your example 2,320...before adding the weights of the passengers, the hitch, cargo, etc. Plus, if that's the empty weight of the RV, when loaded, the PW will be even higher.