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02-01-2008, 02:22 AM
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#21
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Stiles ..We have been using Power service Diesel Kleen. Our dealers in Ohio and Florida) both recommended the booster and when pressed said that the power service was ok as was any additive that was labeled ULSD approved...however that for the Cetane booster ..power service rates oK on Cetance rating but lacks in lubricity.. Don't know how the Ford product rates in lubricity but will find out.....so much to learn
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02-01-2008, 07:05 AM
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#22
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 94
M.O.C. #3430
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Several month ago I sent an email to Cummins asking them if I needed to add anything to this new diesel fuel.
Their reply was NO. I did post their complete reply.
One point that might need consideration: If the fuel you are buying as already been treated and meets all requirements adding more lubricity and ......would this then raise the question "is too much also not good for the engine"
(can't get the picture of my rig to show up can anyone help) Thanks
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02-01-2008, 08:18 AM
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#23
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bum F Egypt
Posts: 979
M.O.C. #2733
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Thanks Rich Looks like it's good-by to Stanadyne Performance Formula hello to Schaeffer 2000. Schaeffer's has the three things I'm looking for lubricity, anti-gel and cetane improver!
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02-01-2008, 10:35 AM
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#24
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: cedar rapids
Posts: 703
M.O.C. #4962
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Rich said"so much to learn"and I would like to ask and know"who's right"? I personally think no one knows for sure.
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02-01-2008, 11:18 AM
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#25
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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The test report was very informative to me but also raised more questions.There are still unknowns...We don't know if the lubricate gets into the fuel each one of use uses. We don't know if the cetane is added to the fuel we use. Checks of some stations in this area by the Ford dealer showed lower than acceptable cetane levels but they did not check for lubricity. we paid a great deal of money for this Diesel truck..are we throwing money away by useing the additive? To many unknowns. Sure it is covered by the Ford warranty but who wants to have their truck broke down 1 or 2K miles from home for who knows how long.We need to do everythibg we can do to keep the truck pulling the Montana all over the country trouble free..Both Ford dealers that we deal with said use a good additive..it won't hurt..now the question is ...which is the good additive. Mickey hit the nail on the head...No one knows for sure..yet..Can we take the chance while they are finding out???
My choice is to use a good aditive..as soon as I can determine which one that is. We been using PS Diesel Kleen..it is not in the top 9 but it is # 10 and on the positive side for lubricity.....Is that good enough????? so much to learn.
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02-01-2008, 01:19 PM
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#26
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mayville
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #2486
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Try this site it may help www.aspalliance.org
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02-01-2008, 01:37 PM
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#27
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Very good oldturbo..another piece of the puzzle comes together
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02-01-2008, 02:56 PM
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#28
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mayville
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #2486
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I do not purchaase my diesel fuel at Wal-Mart and I would not purchase anything from them to put in my fuel tank as they try to get the cheapest things they can find to sell in their stores. Flying J handles a product for fuel but I do not have the name at this time. I beleive the product is made on the east coast and it comes in a clear bottle with a yellow label.
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02-01-2008, 06:57 PM
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#29
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: St.Maries
Posts: 1,010
M.O.C. #7329
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It looks like I will stay with product #7, It reported a good micron improvement, and the price is right. I get it at Wally World in the gallon container and I use about 8 to 12 ounces per fillup. Cost is about 8 cents per ounce. In another study it was also one of the few additives that have the same btu rating as diesel. I add it to help lube the vp44 injection pump. As noted in the test you should not use 2 cycle oil in a truck newer than 06.
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02-02-2008, 01:07 AM
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#30
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Goshen
Posts: 1,058
M.O.C. #2827
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TLightning, I agree with you! Earlier this week when the truck was in getting serviced, I asked if there was anything I should be adding to the fuel in this sub zero weather. He said no so, I'm not going to.
We recently had wind chill factors down to 20 some degrees below zero. All I did was plug in the block heater when I get home from work. The next morning, it starts and runs just great. She hasn't missed a stroke all winter.
My question is, with the cost of diesel fuel the way it is now, why on God's green earth would you want to increase the cost of it by adding ingrediants that are already in the fuel?
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02-02-2008, 01:49 AM
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#31
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brownsburg
Posts: 1,186
M.O.C. #5634
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I work for a large interstate trucking company, we have over 100 units sitting here in the Indy facility and we have Cummins, Internationals, Freightliners, Volvos and a few Fords and we do not put any additive in our fuel other than in the winter we add some anti-gel stuff for trucks in the northern climes. You would think with that kind of investment someone would say yes we can afford a few ounces of additive but we find we wear the trucks out before we wear the engines out --- go figure.
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02-02-2008, 03:15 AM
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#32
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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You can buy PS diesel Kleen in many places besides Wally world..including Flying J and Pilot.You would think that buying diesel at Wally world would be ok due to the high turn over of fuel . We are also told that diesel fuel has a shelf life of 30 days???
Indy roadrunner,,how many of those 100 trucks are 08's with the new emmission standards. We also use no additives in our school busses other than the anti gell and I posted a long time ago we noted, by our fuel logs, a 2 mpg decrese in MPG when we had no choice but to use ULSD fuel.
Like I say..so much to learn and to seperate fact from fiction and old wives tales/
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02-02-2008, 05:03 AM
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#33
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sulphur Springs
Posts: 748
M.O.C. #2220
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Thanks for the info Richfaa. I am highly opposed to additives as this report shows why. Products on the counter rely on MARKETING for sales and use HYPE to push them. Profit is their motive. Not to say there is no good additives. I guess the message here is be informed. Even I was surprised how badly some of the name products did. As in oil buy quality. I use caution shopping for the CHEAPEST fuel for these reasons. It is a shame that Marketers use TRUSTED names and misinformation to sell their products. This appears to be a pretty solid and unbiased test. When a company tests their own product for the purpose of marketing, they are going to set the test parameters that will benefit their product and harm the competitors, these tests may not reflect reality. In this thread someone mentioned a magazine test. I read an article once that made some sense. A magazine is unlikely to give a unfavorable test result to a large advertiser with big money.
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02-02-2008, 08:15 AM
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#34
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bum F Egypt
Posts: 979
M.O.C. #2733
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Just had a talk with a Schaeffer dealer I wanted to buy Diesel Treat 2000. I had the report from The Diesel Place, he was very familiar with it. I asked about the jobbers in my area if they were adding a treatment to diesel, he said NO that Marathon fernery where they get there diesel from had posted that the diesel they produce did not need added lubricity. The stations around here including Marathon stations have posted the ULSD on there pumps. This Schaeffee dealer was of course is trying to sell the jobbers his additives. There are two pipeline where the jobbers also are getting fuel they are needing to add a additives. The Schaeffer dealer also tried to sell his product to them, but was turned down and said it was a pennies game, they are all trying to save a penny and buying the cheapest additive. If it's a pennies game are the jobbers adding the right amounts or any at all to there fuel, all I know its a pennies game?
I feel it's like the wolf watching over the sheep herd for a dealer or manufacture to say you don't need additives, they may just be wanting to service or sell us another truck when it dies.
The additives I did buy from this dealer cost me $5.00 and it treats 5 tanks of fuel, so the cost to me is $1.00 thats 2 cents a gallon. I'll be adding lubricity to my tank and reaping the benefit of the MPG gain and other for now unseen benefits!
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02-02-2008, 12:44 PM
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#35
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brownsburg
Posts: 1,186
M.O.C. #5634
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Rich we have a mixture of older and 08's with the new DPF's (We call the after burners)and I just said we have over a 100 trucks here in Indy, my company is nation wide and our number of trucks is in the thousands. We buy bulk fuel from BP for our larger shops and the smaller facilities use what ever we have a contract with. But I can tell you with certainity that we do not use additives and our R&D department ran test on the USLD even before it was available and the lubricity passed all the test.
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02-03-2008, 12:22 AM
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#36
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bayswater
Posts: 317
M.O.C. #6781
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I think for as long as humans have prowled this earth there has been a market for snake oil. I don't see that demand ending anytime soon. My 08 runs in all kinds of weather with only the additives put there by the oil company and it runs without any problem whatsoever. As someone noted, the truck will wear out before the engine does.
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02-03-2008, 04:10 AM
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#37
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Evans
Posts: 188
M.O.C. #4977
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I think additives are a personnal choice. As the indyroadrunner says the company I work for has 50 plus trucks and 10 or 12 personnal and company vehicles fueling at the yard. We use no additives in our fuel and have not had any problems with the trucks. I personally am confused why some of you would put so much faith in what the dealer says and now some guy does a test and all of a sudden he is the mastermind for additives. I wonder what his qualifications were especially if it showed up in consumers reports. What happened to what the dealers said? Al
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02-03-2008, 04:20 AM
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#38
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Layton
Posts: 1,048
M.O.C. #666
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I suspected as much. Most aftermarket additives are not worth the time, effort, nor money.
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02-03-2008, 04:30 AM
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#39
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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02-03-2008, 10:37 AM
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#40
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bum F Egypt
Posts: 979
M.O.C. #2733
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The report that Rich as shown shows the wear that will happen if the fuel me use is not treated with a additive that we supply as a vehicle owner or the jobber adds to the fuel we burn in your trucks. The HFRR is a tool that shows the wear the engine suffers with out an additive added to the diesel. With the US standard NO GREATER THAN 520 MICRONS HFRR and Engine Manufacturers Association standard of 460 microns. Now untreated fuel yields 636 micron HFRR wear score. If I add a cost of 2 cents a gallon I can make sure, my lets say $5000.00 Duramax motor is protected. It may be snake oil but the lab does show less wear with the additves. It all depends on where each of your comfort levels lie?
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