Chips VS Warranty - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

snow · 06-01-2007, 03:11 PM

I just bought a new Chevelot 2500HD, Duramax diesel with 6-speed Allision Trans. The new style for 2007, anyway, the manual with the truck states, you will be outta wartranty is you use an after market chip. There you go....I don,t need a chip anyway, plenty of power. Just my 2 cents.....

George Berlinger
Lapeer, Michigan
2007 Chevy 2500 HD SB
Allision 6-speed Trans.
2007 Montana 3075
TrailAir Pin Box
16K Husky/slider hitch

trukdoc · 06-01-2007, 03:43 PM

Check with California Bureau of Automotive Repair. They can advise you. I was forced to cover a lot of things I was not responsible for. Biggest reason for me being in Texas.

lasater · 06-01-2007, 06:04 PM

trucdoc,
Good advice. I will check with them.

sriegle,
The info on the cruise control versus tow/haul supposedly came out in a tech bulletin. I have not seen it but was told, 2nd hand, by the diesel forum and a service writer in Lake Havesu City (Bradley Ford). You are right in it not being in the owner's manual.

Leaseit · 06-01-2007, 06:27 PM

I guess the Truck Manufacters have had enough of the after market tinkering with Power Add-On's like Edge. While shopping for a new truck, and my first Tow Vehical, i was in the shop of my old trusted mechanic when the Snap-On Tool Rep. came by and heard my conversation. He added, that GM will start either for 2007 or 2008 diesel trucks, the Dealer Service Tech will have to CALL a GM hot line and get a pass-word/code by giving the Vin Number of the truck. It will only be good and will change after the tech unplugs the computer test equipment from the truck. If you don't have the pass-code it won't allow you into the trucks computer.
I think this is also there idea on how to MAKE you go back to a GM Dealer for service. Just my input..

sreigle · 06-02-2007, 02:55 AM

Thanks, Brad. I don't have the Ford anymore but if I did I'd sure want to be aware of that. I used cruise a lot with t/h, kicking it off only to save some fuel going uphill.

Old GI · 06-02-2007, 03:16 PM

Why put a chip in a 6.0 PSD? My Ford 6.0 PSD has plenty of power to spare pulling my 3400.

trukdoc · 06-03-2007, 03:44 AM

I do a lot of work on Caterpillar engines and there are two parts to the computer. There is the "Driver parameter" section which control PTO, auto idle shutdown or progressive shift and others. then there are engine parameters that have to have a factory PIN to change anything. A big reason for this is for example a 3126 like we have in the Freightliner haulers, they can be bought in configurations from 235 HP to 330 HP. I have the 250 HP all I would need to do besides reflash the computer is change the crank harmonic balancer and change the turbo. Presto 330 HP. The first versions of the engine people were buying the lower priced engine with lower HP and simply turning up the engine without making the changes. Thing is though, the dealers were getting stuck with the warranty repairs and Cat was cheated out of thousands of dollars from the sale. That extra revenue is what covered the more likely warranty of the higher HP engines. Dealers have gotten weary of this and in turn why the CPU's are being locked. It is affecting all of us. I have said it before and I will say it here. You make modifications to a highly engineered system YOU take the responsibility. For those that do not it is really making it hard for the rest of us, like when my truck is out of warranty and I do get the itch to play! I will not be able to due to the lockout. And it is a matter of what is right and wrong. I personally see it wrong to make someone pay for my playing or mistakes. If anyone is liable and should pay that is the people that install this equipment without telling you about the risks, all they want to tell is the benefits. The local shop around here has a picture of a diesel dually smoking the tires I asked if the chip would hurt my engine he quickly said "no", somehow I just do not believe him.

lasater · 06-03-2007, 04:54 PM

1st. The chip was already in the truck when I bought it. I had to have the Ford salesman explain what it was to me since I was unfamiliar with the Edge.

2nd. The dealership is owned by the Wiley Auto Group. I looked at their website this afternoon and discovered an ad for Edge to be installed by the Ford dealership.
http://wileyautogroup.com/offroad-accessories.aspx

3rd. If the dealership and its corporate ownership is advocating, by advertising, an after-market power chip, what could be their basis for refusing warranty work on a vehicle containing what they advocate, sell, and install? Hmmmm....

skypilot · 06-04-2007, 04:46 AM

Our local Ford dealer will sell and install a chip for the 6.0 (haven't spoken to them about the 6.4); however, they tell the buyer upfront (in fact have signs posted to the fact) that adding the chip will void the factory warranty if it 'appears' that the chip contributed to (or caused) the problem. "Be aware - you will pay for future engine issues if you have us install .......". But, as several said above and in other posts, they want to play and therefore they pay. Me, I'm still a poor working sole so I play by their rules -- I may not like them but I don't have the $$$$$ to fight them.

By the way, the big thing that I heard about this weekend was 'punching a hole through' or 'installing a small metal by-pass around' the Diesel Particulate Filters. Seems someone has discovered (?) that by doing so they could trick the computer into thinking the regeneration isn't needed as often hence improving mileage. I just got off the phone with my Dodge dealer (have mine 06 in getting OLF done today) and I asked the service tech about this. He said they had read a Dodge release saying that such was being reported and corporate is working on procedures to ensure dealers correctly diagnose and report issues when seeking warranty approvals. Didn't know what that would entail as yet. I'd be willing to guess that the other manufacturers won't be far behind if not already doing the same.

trukdoc · 06-05-2007, 04:08 PM

Lasater I seriously doubt the FOMOCO will touch this, however the dealer that sold you the truck knowing the chip was installed certainly has some liability. They had the oportunity to remove chip and save their warranty. But they didnt. And this case being a little different that the folks that install the chips themselves.

simonsrf · 06-06-2007, 06:33 AM

Quote from sreigle:

Quote:

quote:Extra power is always nice but for me it's just not worth the risk. If my truck doesn't have enough power to do the job I'll get another truck. And run it stock. But I know others like to have that extra power and to them it is worth the risk. To each his own.

Steve, didn't you buy a new Dodge?? Nice choice, no need for no stinkn' chip.

sreigle · 06-06-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by simonsrf

Steve, didn't you buy a new Dodge?? Nice choice, no need for no stinkn' chip.

I'm still busy being amazed by the power of the 6.7. I haven't towed with it yet (tomorrow) but putting miles on it last night I "needed" to pass a hauler towing a travel trailer and on a 2 lane road with rolling hills. Short passing lanes, in other words. I also didn't want to get on the engine too hard, being pretty new. So, running about 52 or 53 mph I gave it maybe a quarter throttle and went flying by this guy. So far I am very impressed. Mileage was outstanding for having less than 500 miles on the truck. This was all solo. Some rolling hills but mostly flatlands. County roads, state highways, US highways. Speed limits from 50 to 70. Several small towns to go through. Numerous traffic lights (mostly red, of course). Overall I got between 18.5 and 19.0. I can't tell for sure because I reset the computer a few times, testing. For a stretch of flatland running 70 mph for almost ten miles it got 19.6 mpg. On the return trip, same area in reverse, running at 60 mph, it was running just a scratch under 22 mpg. These numbers are just at those speeds. No stops and starts and only very slight hills. Optimum conditions in other words. But I'm happy. And all this is on ULSD. I did panic a bit, though. The dealer filled the tank today but when I picked it up yesterday to put the miles on it, it had about 1/8 tank. So I put 8 gallons in. Twenty miles later I realized I forgot to check for the ULSD sticker. I was panicked that I may have done some damage. On the way back I drove through that station and then could exhale in relief. It was ulsd. I will have to get in the habit of checking for that sticker.

The Oldguard · 06-06-2007, 04:51 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by simonsrf

Steve, didn't you buy a new Dodge?? Nice choice, no need for no stinkn' chip.

Robbie, that sure is the best looking Dodge Steve has in his signature!!!!

simonsrf · 06-07-2007, 04:30 AM

Bill, good eye! I also noticed the leaking oil, the smokey looking exhaust pipe...and that loud engine....whew! Nice color though.

yep, Steve, Bill is right, you need to get that piece-of-junk off your signature. You must be out enjoying your new ride and just don't have the time to worry about those SOB's. I can loan you a good picture of a beautiful Dodge truck to grace your signature block.

Bill, you want one too?...I can autograph it for ya.

richfaa · 06-07-2007, 04:48 AM

We are watching your Dodge experience with great interest,,Would sure like to have a Cummins..Let us know how you feel about the new xmittion.

The Oldguard · 06-07-2007, 06:53 AM

Robbie, I would like one we need a dart board for the next rally, and a picture of your dodge would make a great background for it!!!!

Ok we better stop before someone thinks we’re serious and starts getting on us for bashing SOB’s.

sreigle · 06-08-2007, 12:25 PM

Robbie, I hate to say it but my Ford didn't leak oil or even burn any. Always full at oil change time, never any oil added. It only smoked when tromping on it. But it was loud. I have to agree about that part.

Rich, the transmission seems to be excellent so far. Very intelligent about upshifting and downshifting. In non-tow/haul it is very smooth shifting. Not mushy or soft. In tow/haul it shifts firmly. Very quickly (good for keeping down the heat, I understand) but not harsh. Grade braking with tow/haul and the exhaust brake is very good. Very similar to the Ford but maybe just a little bit better about holding down speed. Not much, though. The Ford TorqShift is excellent at grade braking. I've not heard of any serious problems with the Dodge 68RFE transmission but it's still not been around but, what, about a year or a little more? So I don't know how well it holds up in the long run.

I've only towed two days and 468 miles but had a combination of flatlands in Indiana and western Ohio and big hills and moutains in Eastern Ohio and Western Pennsylvania, and a very small part of WV. We're near Ebensburg, PA, tonight. Tomorrow we reach Gettysburg. Short day tomorrow, 152 miles.

At this point I am becoming enthralled with the Cummins. I have observed the manual's mandate to not exceed 50 mph in the first 500 miles of towing. Well, for the most part I've held to that. The low end grunt of this engine is amazing. It fairly leaps off the line with Montana in tow and pulls hills like a freight train. My Fords did very well also but the low end of this engine continues to amaze me. Tomorrow I can start running higher speeds so will see how it does then. That is, if the roads will allow me higher speeds. We're running US highways in PA and had county, state, and US highways in the other states. We hit 1000 miles on the truck this afternoon.

I don't know if anyone is familiar with these roads but tomorrow's route --
From Ebensburg, PA,
US 22 east to Union, PA
US 522 south to McConnellsburg
US 30 east to Gettysburg.

simonsrf · 06-09-2007, 03:57 AM

Steve,

Sorry, did not mean to offend you about your OLD truck I was just playing with OldGuard about his Ford, . Bill dreams about owning a Dodge.

I've had my Dodge truck for 18 months, and I am still amazed by the Cummins engine power..this is one awesome truck.

Nice signature picture, another beautiful Dodge. My hope is that your experience is as good as mine with the Dodge. Please, keep us posted.

wileecoyote985 · 06-11-2007, 04:10 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Steve and Brenda

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Hemlockusa

There figuring LABOR ALSO...

Thats a large amount of labor hours, even at $70.00 per hour, it'd equal almost 100 hours labor!!!

From the reading I've done, the preferred method for major engine work on the super duty Fords is to actually take the cab off the truck so they can get easier access to the drive train. While labor intensive, apparently it saves time over trying to work through the engine compartment.

I've seen some photos and the process looks pretty scary. Especially if the owner is having to pay. Probably one of the reasons for the huge labor quote?

BTW I bought my truck used with 9000 miles on it. Didn't even enter my mind at the time to wonder or check if the previous owner had ever installed a chip. If I were to do it again (not likely as I plan to keep this one for as long as I need a tow vehicle) it's one of the first things I'd check out. Now that I'm edumacated a used truck that is or has been chipped would be a very large red flag to me.

Gary

lasater · 06-11-2007, 10:50 AM

We went back to the Ford dealership this morning and talked some more with the Service Manager. So, far they have re-pulled the head, verified the hole in piston #8, and wrote up a report for the Regional Service Manager. We don't know yet when he will arrive to verify the work.

The local service manager believes that, due to the circumstances of this particular sale, that if Ford doesn't honor warranty work on the truck, then Colorado River Ford and Wiley Auto Group will honor it. It will still be a month before I get the truck back.

We are smarter about the use of after-market add-ons and can assure everyone that we will make no modifications to a power train that has been designed by many engineers who know a Hell of a lot more about power trains than I do.

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