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Old 08-12-2008, 01:54 PM   #1
stiles watson
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Wasn't going to say anything, but.........

The idea of getting a good lawyer to deal with Keystone was expressed. I have thought about that over the last day or two. In my opinion, that is not a good idea. Once litigation is in play, an adversarial relation takes precedence over all others. Bargaining goes out the window. Then it is one side against the other and someone must win and the other must lose.

I, for one, don't want that kind of relationship with Keystone or my dealer. In my experience, results from negotiation and persuasion far exceed the outcome of litigation. Additionally, I don't have to give half the proceeds to the lawyer.

I do realize that some situations can arise where litigation is not only the last resort, but seems to be the only resort. However, I would hope that ALL other avenues for satisfactory resolution are exhausted before any kind of litigation is considered.

In my opinion, from what has been posted on the MOC time after time, Keystone has stepped across their obligatory line to provide customer service. Once an adversarial relationship is established, that kind of cooperative relationship is lost.

I am not trying to start trouble. As a former Certified Mediator in the State of Texas, I have a basis for my comments.
 
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:12 PM   #2
Waynem
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Good advice Stiles. I hope you prevail.
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:33 PM   #3
David and Jo-Anna
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Stiles--assuming you are referring to a recent post by Rich, I'm sure he was joking when he suggested I get a lawyer. Rich is a clever guy who guessed my secret. LOL!!!

As to your general point about the drawbacks of litigation, I couldn't agree more. Based on my 29 years of experience, litigation is a very expensive and often problematic way of resolving disputes. Sometimes it's necessary, but it should be a last resort. At the same time, the threat of litigation sometimes keeps people honest and reduces the inclination of the powerful to just ignore the rights of the little guy. In my dealings with TireCo about the failure of the Mission tire that damaged my rig, I felt it finally became necessary to point out to them that the dangers posed by my Mission tires created a significant risk of product liability. And who ever said that studying product liability law wouldn't come in handy some day. LOL!!!
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Old 08-13-2008, 10:33 AM   #4
richfaa
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My post was a a inside joke... I have the highest regard for the legal profession having worked closely with them over the years.There are times when litigation is the only way to deal with a given situation..one must choose the battleground carefully. IMO the RV industry is a mine field.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:56 AM   #5
Glenn and Lorraine
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A year or two ago, I was told by a very significant individual within Keystone Customer Service that if any person ever threatens using the word "lawsuit" or "lawyer" to any Customer Service Representative that CSR is instructed to end any conversation immediately and hang up.
If and when the disgruntled person calls back he/she will immediately be forwarded to the legal department.
This type of a threat will end any possibility of an amicable conclusion to the original problem.

This type CSR policy is becoming more and more prevalent in all business'.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:15 PM   #6
Waynem
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A lot of people will use the word "lawyer" to get a reaction, hopefully in their favor. Large corporations have legal departments just for that scenario and yes, if I were in business and someone said, "Well, I'll see what my lawyer says," I to would end all conversation and refer all future calls to the legal department. Sounds like good business to me.

Remember how to attract flies - with honey! Same principle works for humans.

Example: I was supposed to pick up my SOB today and when I called this morning I was asked if they could put the paper work signing and walk through until tomorrow. Everything is ready in it, but it needed to be cleaned on the outside and they only had one cleaner working today with a couple other units to get out. Now, had I said, no and that I really needed it today, they would have gotten it out for me. But, the only hurry I'm in at this time is to be retired and read the manual when I get the MH. I agreed. I stopped by the dealer today to ask about license plate transfer since I have special license plates. The manager went through the paper work, called for the "pay off" on my trade ins, and said there was a $2000 difference because of the date asking for the pay off versus when he first asked over a week ago. Believe me, I'm making out ok on this deal. They are eating a large portion of that difference.

I wonder what would have happened if I insisted on getting my unit today?

Litigation is an extreme measure and should only be undertaken when ALL else fails. Determining when ALL has failed is a very difficult task. Everyone has their own level of patience. (JMHO)
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:01 AM   #7
SlickWillie
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Threatening someone with a lawyer is sort of like pulling a gun; don't do it unless you plan to use it. I've dealt with several attorneys, and wouldn't hesitate to use one if needed, but I would never try to use that threat as a bargaining tool. It just doesn't work.

That being said, I would hope for Keystone's sake their "legal department" is better than their engineering department and labor force, otherwise, they could be in for big trouble.
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:36 AM   #8
Thunderman
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I agree, we should not bring up the matter of litigation when it appears to be the only recourse.
It will be far more effective to let your attorney present the endeavor for you.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:10 AM   #9
Hemlockusa
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Good thoughts Stiles. The years I have been on the forum and watching the posts and problems of the members through these years. I am really surprised that Keystone has made such a great effort to keep it's customer base happy, and that is exactly why our next 5th wheel will ge a MONTANA OR BIG SKY..
Safe travels everyone and please remember """""BRANSON IS FINE 2009""""

John
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:21 PM   #10
sreigle
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I've been awol for awhile... so what brought up this topic to begin with?
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:47 PM   #11
Mrs. CountryGuy
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Hi Steve,

Believe it was David and JoAnna's frame problem coming out of Alaska.

Rich was goofing and some of us did not realize it??

Anyway, me thinks that was it.
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:30 PM   #12
richfaa
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Believe it was David and JoAnna's frame problem coming out of Alaska.

Rich was goofing and some of us did not realize it??

That was it..a little inside joke between myself and David.Unfortunately only the two of us go it.. How many demerits do I get???
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:41 PM   #13
Mrs. CountryGuy
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None Rich

We will let cha off the hook, ya did fess up after all!
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Old 08-24-2008, 02:14 PM   #14
billhoover
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sreigle

I've been awol for awhile... so what brought up this topic to begin with?
Go to "Repairs And Service" and find the thread entitled: "Help needed--axle support tearing loose." Last time I looked it was on the second page.
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